The ultimate play bike!

[buzzy613]

I've been throwing this idea around in my head and im finaly making it a reality. i got a free IHI turbo off of a 1.8 liter vw car, and ive decided to put it on my 85 250r! I'm going to be running low boost around 3-5 lbs. i will have pics up sometime tomarow

[Chazz of Blades]

...........Good luck with that.


250cc < 1800cc.


And it's a two stroke.

[audioworks04]

Hum...its been done before on two strokes, but is not easy at all. Generally forced induction and carbs are very very hard to tune correctly in a four stroke world, let along a two stroke. Your main problem will be getting power band to work around the same time that your boost comes on.

[dougspcs]

I think you'll find that turbo on a 2-stroke is not very practical..since of course it runs on exhaust pressure to drive the turbine..

2 stroke exhaust pressure isn't constant enough to run the turbo and the tuning of the exhaust will be badly impaired by the turbo.

I have doubts that it will work at all personally!

[hogmuffin]

ive always thought about putting a turbo on a trike....

[buzzy613]

I've talked to matt sheare and he said that the way im setting it up i will be able to run low boost, wich is all i want. and a friend of mine just finished up putting a turbo on his shee, and he is throwing in a hand with this project

[110klt]

Low boost/high boost it really dosen't matter. What you will have problems with is turbo lag. As said above 250cc engine turning a turbo out of a 1800cc engine? Even if the flow is 2x as much because it is a 2 stroke it dosen't add up. Plus 2 strokes are not noted for there low end grunt so to even get the turbo moving you'll have to be in the powerband.

All I can say is your a smarter man then I if you can make that work.

[Chazz of Blades]

Here's how I see it going. You have to hit powerband to get in power, boost kicks in, and the top end of your motor finds a new home lodged cozily right up your ass because you suddenly took on a lot more revs, and a lot more power, and all at once that two stroke that's already incredibly sensitive to RPM and exhaust tuning has decided that it wants to retire from being a motor and live a nice scenic life as a paperweight.


Unless you dump tons more cash into reinforcing and other modifications to suit a turbo that there's a large chance won't work anyway. They made a Chinese turbo kit for a 250cc engine once, an EFI kit too. Never saw how well they worked though.


By all means though, it's your time, effort, money, and R, so if you really want to do it, just make sure you take everything into account and post pictures.

[SteveCZ28]

too much work to get it to even work on a 2 stroke as everyone above mentioned,. and then if you did get it to work youll have to make some sort of oiling system for it being as that turbo originally would take oil from the motor to circulate it for the bearings and also to help cool it. you dont get that type of oil pressure, or oil in general to even feed that turbo

[buzzy613]

http://www.trx250r.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3436&d=1326744635
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/Cory_VanSumeren/banshee/2012-03-18_21-34-59_915.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLozhFBrLE&feature=related

[ATC-Eric]

I think you should go for it.

[buzzy613]

http://s1063.photobucket.com/albums/t516/buzzy613/turbo/?action=view&current=0716121830a1.jpg#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2 F%2Fs1063.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft516%2Fbuzzy6 13%2Fturbo%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D07161218 30a1.jpg


http://s1063.photobucket.com/albums/t516/buzzy613/turbo/?action=view&current=0716121830a1.jpg#!oZZ2QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2 F%2Fs1063.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft516%2Fbuzzy6 13%2Fturbo%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D07161218 30.jpg

[Thorpe]

Hate to be "that guy"... But good luck with that project...

[4x4van]

From what I've heard...could be wrong as I don't know a lot about turbos..but a 2-stroke is problematic for a turbo because of the lack of valves. Both intake ports and exhaust ports are open at the same time, meaning that any "turbo" pressure will go in the intake and right back out of the exhaust?

By all means, give it a go, post pics, and report back on the progress!

[buzzy613]

Well i hooked everything up just to test it and i built up 3lbs of boost befor, the fuel started to spray out the carb vents and drained the bowl. All that needs to be done now is to finalize the intake, route the lines to the charge tube from the carb, put a different nedel and seat, and then hook up a fuel pump. i got to say that 3lbs befor it would bog i thought i was still going to be sitting there and the bike would take off!

[Mosh]

Still...How are you going to keep this turbo oiled?

[buzzy613]

i plan on using a brake resivor or some type of bottle and a pump with either a small batterie, or wire a voltage regulater in to my stator

[just ben]

From what I've heard...could be wrong as I don't know a lot about turbos..but a 2-stroke is problematic for a turbo because of the lack of valves. Both intake ports and exhaust ports are open at the same time, meaning that any "turbo" pressure will go in the intake and right back out of the exhaust?

By all means, give it a go, post pics, and report back on the progress!very true, to a point.on an r engine it will be an issue. I turboed a rotary valve 2 stroke engine that ran very well but the reliability was an issue. after a few rotory valves and a couple valve plates I gave up, put it back to stock and sold it.

[buzzy613]

Low boost/high boost it really dosen't matter. What you will have problems with is turbo lag. As said above 250cc engine turning a turbo out of a 1800cc engine? Even if the flow is 2x as much because it is a 2 stroke it dosen't add up. Plus 2 strokes are not noted for there low end grunt so to even get the turbo moving you'll have to be in the powerband.

All I can say is your a smarter man then I if you can make that work.

a turbo has to over come a 6lb exhaust vacuum on a 2 stroke engine once it zeros out the exhaust waves resonate off the exhaust wheel which creates torque on the compressor shaft. the exhaust waves then travel back to the cylinder and interfere with exiting exhaust from the exhaust port and creates a lot of back pressure and heat and thus creates theoretically sealed combustion chamber much like a 4 stroke with valves.

[86T3]

a turbo has to over come a 6lb exhaust vacuum on a 2 stroke engine once it zeros out the exhaust waves resonate off the exhaust wheel which creates torque on the compressor shaft. the exhaust waves then travel back to the cylinder and interfere with exiting exhaust from the exhaust port and creates a lot of back pressure and heat and thus creates theoretically sealed combustion chamber much like a 4 stroke with valves.

I love this response. Prove the nay sayers wrong! For your carb problems i know that people build sealed boxes that go around the whole crab so there isn't a pressure difference, you're probably going to have to do that in order to use the stock carb. Lets see some video!!!

[cattle-dog]

several turbo banshee`s have been built and run very well but the cost is not cheap

[buzzy613]

there is a way to get around the sealed box theory, all i have to do in route the fuel vent lines in to the charge tube. So the pressure from the forced air will take the fuel back through the carborator eleminating the "bog" that i am experancing, ill get videos up whn i build the silencer because its pretty loud as is right now

[Saleenster]

3 lbs of boost ? Run Alky and you will achieve more power that way vs a turbo....thats the good, the bad, your in for a nightmare, more trouble/cost then its worth and it will run great on one trip up the hill and you will fight it the rest of the wkend trying to acheive that 1 good ride up that hill....I have seen many give it a shot, with no success. EFI raptor YES, 2 smoke Honda, NO

[bkm]

I remember there being a Banshee kit for sale in the back of Dirt Wheels years ago. Late 90's early 2000's IIRC. I think they advertised 130 H.P. on a stock 350 Banshee engine. I also remember the kit being 3500-4000 dollars.

[jadleybray]

It has been done before with limited success in the drag scene on 2 strokes, but you better have deep pockets!! In all honesty, there are just too many other things you can do to get power without the problems

[buzzy613]

alky wont get me more hp, insted of the 10-15 i figured that i would be making wiht the turbo, alky will get me about 3. Also alky isnt sold out in atv parks or around them

[Afrothunderkat]

http://www.trx250r.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3436&d=1326744635
http://i1141.photobucket.com/albums/n587/Cory_VanSumeren/banshee/2012-03-18_21-34-59_915.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBLozhFBrLE&feature=related

"988cc banshee"

not 250.

[buzzy613]

too bad thats a 421 serval cub

[jeddy]

Good info for everyone else to see what you do and what may possibly work. It's not like you're trying to keep it alive for ten years or hit 300 mph, just have fun. Keep this updated if you can.

On your oiling, I wonder if you could get a small 12v pump, like an electric fuel pump and make a feed line for it that uses the drain plug off the bottom of the motor just to make it easy. You could power the pump with a small 12v battery like off a powerwheels kids toy. The turbo could possibly drain back into the filler on the motor. I would think you'd just have to have a good crankcase vent to allow it to breathe. The other nice thing would be you could run the pump before and after the engine is stopped.

[torque]

im not sure if its possible to turbo a 2 stroke. one thing for sure if it works out you will go from goat to hero in 2.3 seconds.

good luck

[Matrix]

I cant believe all the negativity you're getting. So far just about everyone wants to tell you how its not going to work instead of putting constructive input into this. If it doesn't work, who cares! Its not my honda, its not their honda, its yours! In the end its either not going to work or it will. If it does I hope you prance around shoving it in all the nay-sayers faces and when they want to build you can refer back to this and make them eat there words. If it doesn't you could explain why in a scientific way, not just "well you see because the turbo is made for 1800 and you have a 250" or "the exhaust only...and then you will not....or well, its just not going to work, you're stupid and a waste of you're time"... I say go for it! You sound knowledgeable beyond just "...well". This sounds awesome and I cant wait to see it run, or wreck trying (I would hate to see an R die).

I know I will get heat from this post but at the end of the day... I dont care :D

[oscarmayer]

turbo you chose is a bit too big it will have a lot of issues "spooling" it and cause lots of lag if it even spools it.I would recommend you look at Garrett. They make a GT12 turbo that is designed for 500-800cc engines. seeing you have a 2smoker 250 it will work. so it woudl do you good. from there you install a better piston and go with big carb and lots of tuning. dial-a-jet will be your best friend for sure!

[Russell 350X]

Good luck is all I have to say. There's alot of other ways to get more ass out of a 2stroke than a turbo.

[buzzy613]

well she runs im up to 5lbs and sticking with it! i still have a slight bog from the boost but im fine tuning it as we speek.im going to run a power jet setup also on my tm38 mikuni. jeddy. i do like your oiling idea and i may be taking it from you

[snap911]

any updates, pics, or video?

[Matrix]

Nice! I'm very happy you got it to work! Maybe some others will rethink their ignorant, negative comments...


shens
We need a smiley thing that instead of shens will say props or something?

[buzzy613]

ill snap a few pics later on but just to warn you the intake charge tube will not be the final set up. and i still have to run an exhaust silencer. Also a video will be posted up after i get it all tuned in

[jeddy]

If you use a powerwheels type battery to run an oiling system, I'd recommend one from a company called Gruber Power Services. He has cheap, good batteries. Search eBay and you can find his store or just find his website. I've been building a high voltage power wheels Jeep for my son and I got a couple 6V batteries from him so I can wire it as either 6 volt or 12 volt (will do a burnout at 12V). I've never spoken with him directly, but from what I read he's a really nice guy and willing to help, so he would probably be good for sourcing a battery once you know what size you need.

No idea what kind of pump you'd need, if you do try an electric automotive style fuel pump maybe you could mount it under the engine so it won't starve the inlet. Ideally you'd make some inlet fitting that screwed directly into the cases where the oil drain plug was and that would double as your pump inlet and pump mount...I'm thinking something like a nipple or elbow that had the straight metric case thread on one side and an NPT on the other. Maybe you could use a jam nut on the adapter to seal a copper washer to the bottom of the case and that would allow you to position the pump at different angles and still get a decent seal.

[fabiodriven]

Maybe some others will rethink their ignorant, negative comments...

I personally think you're doing your celebratory berating a bit early there buddy. Let's get some video of this thing and see what he's got. Anybody can plumb a turbo, it's not tough. Sure, the engine will run, but how well and for how long? My bet is it's not much faster than it already was and a whole lot less reliable. I bet a properly tuned non-turbo R would chew it up and spit it out.

The comments that you disagree with are by no means ignorant, on the contrary as a matter of fact. These people are sharing their experiences with what they have seen and more than one of them sounds like they've seen it in person. Not only are they not speaking ignorantly, but they're speaking from an educated point of view. They've seen it. Have you? Who's the ignorant one?

I've personally never seen a turbo charged two stroke in person, but I have my doubts on this working effectively. Notice I said effectively, and by that I mean a significant horsepower gain over where he initially started. Also, not something that's going to bounce around and fall off the bike. Something that looks like it belongs there, not like a tumor hanging off the side of what would have been an otherwise good bike.

I can see it working with a Banshee because of the two cylinders. You end up with a much smoother exhaust stream. In this case you have only one cylinder and a turbo that's about 4 times too big. I'm not confident in this thing being a big success.

[Matrix]

I personally think you're doing your celebratory berating a bit early there buddy. Let's get some video of this thing and see what he's got. Anybody can plumb a turbo, it's not tough. Sure, the engine will run, but how well and for how long? My bet is it's not much faster than it already was and a whole lot less reliable. I bet a properly tuned non-turbo R would chew it up and spit it out.

The comments that you disagree with are by no means ignorant, on the contrary as a matter of fact. These people are sharing their experiences with what they have seen and more than one of them sounds like they've seen it in person. Not only are they not speaking ignorantly, but they're speaking from an educated point of view. They've seen it. Have you? Who's the ignorant one?

I've personally never seen a turbo charged two stroke in person, but I have my doubts on this working effectively. Notice I said effectively, and by that I mean a significant horsepower gain over where he initially started. Also, not something that's going to bounce around and fall off the bike. Something that looks like it belongs there, not like a tumor hanging off the side of what would have been an otherwise good bike.

I can see it working with a Banshee because of the two cylinders. You end up with a much smoother exhaust stream. In this case you have only one cylinder and a turbo that's about 4 times too big. I'm not confident in this thing being a big success.

Okay I see where you're coming from. Excuse me for saying ignorant but the general feeling I had from reading some of the post's was "..just because" instead of having reasoning to support their response in the first place. Also that was not a quote from someone's post.

I'll call it a success if it actually produces a noticeable power gain and doesn't blow up soon. Although, if it does work in the context that I stated, I still wouldn't buy it because of the reliability issue like you and many others stated. Not all prototypes are nice and good looking the first time either. If it looks like a hideous massacre when he shows us, I wont berate it. Next year if he hasn't cleaned it up I wont be to fond of it but none the less, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[D-dub]

Its not a question of whether it will work or not, sled guys have been boosting their big bore twins for years

[Matrix]

Its not a question of whether it will work, sled guys have been boosting their big bore twins for years

This is a single cylinder small bore bike though.

[110klt]

OK lets see it run, and then lets see it run against compitition? I know turbos work..... I have had several turbo cars including the 1.8 VW Jetta I drive now. I know about pressure, volume, turbo lag and power curve, all I said was the turbo seemed rather large for the application.

But by all means prove me wrong, I have been wrong before......

[Mosh]

You know...The issue is, I see way too many people buy a 250R or Z or whatever..Ride it in their yard and start these threads "I need More Power"... "I am gonna put a turbo on my trike or quad."
Then they spend over 1500$ on a 330 kit and still ride it in their yard. Or even yet, spend a few grand on some hybrid and take some sunny pics next to a babbling brook with a pretty back drop...
Honestly..I have been riding for a long time..I dont consider myself a pro, I dont think I am the fastest..
However, I cannot ride my ported 250R to it's full potential..I did not debautcherize it, I did not back yard some diesel injection system on it, or adapt some CR 250 jug on it...

That is truth.... I can holeshot almost any big bore or 450 hybrid with a ported 250R and a pipe..I got pics and vids to prove it...BUT.... after about 3 turns..I struggle to stay in the top 5-6 riders on a MX track...Against some piped 350x's and a few piped stock bore 250cc 2 strokes and the occaisional hybrid 450.

Many people would be way better off (including myself) to spend money on practice track time, or trail ride fee's, then go hopping up a engine they can't handle stock with a pipe in the first place..
Thumb me down..Mother eff me all you want..It is true.