The open forum

[riverrat]

Forum: The Open ForumWhere the cool kids go to talk about stuff other then trikes. Our highly (un)qualified group of members can give you financial advice, diagnose your current health crisis, conjurer up a fix for your ailing air conditioning system at home, and share your pain over your latest life crisis with a tear in their beer.

That's for you fabio, and anyone else that doesn't get the meaning of an open forum. I wasn't the one claiming that you are limited to what you can post here. If you can't deal with people posting WHATEVER they want in an open forum, that's just too dam bad. If you can't stay on topic, then you should be banned IMO. Posting whatever you feel is important in your life that has nothing to do with trikes, then complaining that I am posting stuff in an open forum that has nothing to do with trikes makes you a hypocrite (just a fact, not an insult). Plus calling people's threads abortions will make you no friends, and you aren't being nice. I think they call that flaming, and trolling. but at least you were right about one thing. "the odds of this thread actually producing a productive, civil discussion are slim to nil" of course, if you can't stay on topic, that IS what will happen. saying something will happen, then making it happen has to have a word to describe that.

Really people, if you don't have anything nice to say to people, no matter what they post, just be silent. Keep this place nice. You know what they say about opinions. If you think someone has said something mean to you, ask them to clarify first before you fly off the handle, especially to someone you don't even know.

If no-one replied to my thread about OWS, I would have got the message loud and clear that people are not interested in discussing it here. If you don't understand why I called you a redneck, then just ask. Trikes are supposed to be the common bond that we have together. At least let that be a reason to be courteous to each other.

I've seen a lot more bashing on here lately, especially in the new member section. I just don't get it. A forum is only as good as it's members. I don't want any enemies here, this is where I go for peace, I am sure most of you do too.

[fabiodriven]

Hey man, you fired the first shot. All I did was speak the truth. I obviously spend a lot of time on these boards and I've seen my fair share of political discussions go down the crapper faster than a BCredneck frame repair. All I said was that I didn't like what you posted (my opinion) and told you that your thread more than likely wouldn't last long (and I was right as you stated). If you don't want people's opinions then don't post in a public forum. Opinions are like arse holes. Everybody has one and they all stink. It wasn't until after you fired a shot at me that I stated I was going to steer your thread the way I saw fit. You stated your opinion, I said I didn't like it. That's fine, you don't have to like my opinion. But then you take a shot at me. I'm not going to stand for that and there is no reason I should.

I did refer to your first thread as an abortion. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I never said anything bad about that thread for days until you took a shot at me. I bit my lip through that entire thread except for my one post, and that post wasn't even directed at you. It was directed at everybody. I happen to know you personally (somewhat, if you remember meeting me at Raffa's) and that's why I didn't say anything bad about you or your thread until you took a shot at me.

Now this is obviously not my site, but if it were there would be something in the title of this forum that states "No political discussions" or something to that effect. Political discussions never, ever end well. And not just on the internet either. I purposely do not discuss politics in depth with people because it always ends in a sh!t show. It turns into a fight every single time. I am not into politics and feel I do not know enough to have a strong opinion in any single direction, but I know what I believe in and I would rather have a smile on my face talking about the time I barrel rolled at Icefest when I was leading my heat or when I farted on some innocent shopper at WalMart.

You don't want to get sh!t from me, don't prod me. F*%k with the bull, you get the horns.

[riverrat]

All I said was that I didn't like what you posted (my opinion) and told you that your thread more than likely wouldn't last long (and I was right as you stated).

You can't say a thread is going to go bad, then make it go bad and be right. You actually fired the first shot by going off topic. Any discussion is fine as long as you don't go off topic, and and don't insult people. I don't have a problem with people's opinions, as long as they are on topic. I would never get mad for someone disagreeing with me, but would love to discuss it. Maybe I have something to learn, or maybe they do.

It's not your site, and the rules are there for everyone to see. If they want to change the rules then fine, but for now you can post anything you want. You have the things you like, and others have theirs. you shouldn't put people down for what they are into and they are following the rules. But don't say sheet about other people's off topic posts when you make them yourself. I've seen political discussion on here go just fine, when the people involved stay on topic, and don't insult each other. The recent Ron Paul thread is an example. It's pretty simple. Going off-topic is probably the worst thing you can do on a forum, it never leads anywhere good, and even in civil discussion is an annoying diversion that people hate to read through when they are trying to read about the topic at hand.

Yes, if you grab THIS bull by the horns you are going to hear about it. But I am not mad at you, and I do remember you. I am just trying to show you something. I have not insulted you, just stating facts. Remember, it's just a forum, and understanding each other with limited words is difficult. Keep it at face value I say.

I think I have made my point, and like I said, I don't want enemies.

[fabiodriven]

I'm not looking for enemies either man. Where did I go off topic?

[Billy Golightly]

It's not your site, and the rules are there for everyone to see. If they want to change the rules then fine, but for now you can post anything you want.

My only post in regards to this is going to be quoting the above and clarifying that all the rules are with in reason. Within reason, you can post whatever you want. But if it becomes a source or point of issues, I'll nuke it. This has always been my stance. Something doesn't have to "technically" fall outside of the rules. I encourage lively and civil discussions of varying topics and natures. Political ones in general have a short record of being successful. Doesn't mean I won't give it an opportunity, but I know from experience they don't end well.

[Mosh]

Personally, I could have dealt with a little OWS discussion. I had no arguments to offer, but some crazy observations that may spark some really good points for those interested.

I do agree that most political threads dont end up well, but some can get some civil discussion. That OWS thread never even left the ground due to some off tangent almost "trolling" opinions.
I dont know if you can even consider OWS political in nature for the what the cause is for. It is politics causing the problems with OWS IMO.

For instance, there is a slew of threads in the open forum that I dont give a rats behind about so I stay out..(Some really stupid ones IMO) So I just choose not to say anything.

[riverrat]

I'm not looking for enemies either man. Where did I go off topic?

The topic it was occupy wall street, Not whether or not political discussions are a good idea.

[riverrat]

My only post in regards to this is going to be quoting the above and clarifying that all the rules are with in reason. Within reason, you can post whatever you want. But if it becomes a source or point of issues, I'll nuke it. This has always been my stance. Something doesn't have to "technically" fall outside of the rules. I encourage lively and civil discussions of varying topics and natures. Political ones in general have a short record of being successful. Doesn't mean I won't give it an opportunity, but I know from experience they don't end well.

Its your forum, you can do whatever you want, I get why you shut it down. If people were forced to stay on topic, things might go better. I have over 6000 posts in another debate forum, and they are pretty strict about that. I am just grateful this forum exsists and will go along with anything.

[fabiodriven]

OK. Well my apologies for derailing your thread. I suppose I just shouldn't have said anything at all. I didn't have the intentions of messing up your thread when I wrote that, but that's what happened.

Like I said I did agree with quite a few of the things you had in your first post, but I have trouble believing anybody. These days you have to take what the media says with a grain (more like a tablespoon) of salt, but that doesn't mean I should believe what you or anyone else has to say just because I don't believe them. Don't take that the wrong way, that's not a dig at you. The problem is, I have trouble believing what anybody has to say about big issues like that.

For Mosh or anybody else who would have been interested in discussing that topic I'm sorry I porked you guys.

[JasonB]

RABBLE RABBLE!!!



Seems like some of the newer members are faster to jump into fights. I have been here for a little while, seems like the environment has changed a little over the years.

[hublake]

In my 68 years there are two things I have learned not to get in discussions about. They are politics and the Bible. Occupy wall street might not be about politics but is close.

[riverrat]

You are awesome fabio. Aces in my book. Thank you.

fyi, the first post of OWS was their own declaration, the one you dont hear in the media. When I read that and compared it too what both sides of the media was saying about it, plus first hand accounts from people I know, I had to change my mind about them. I just thought I would share what the media hides from us with my fellow trike riders. Being trike riders I thought everyone would understand, since it was the media that dupped us in the 80's.

[dksix]

New members are always going to be new members. It's the same here as every other forum. And as such, there is always going to be senior members complaining about how the site has changed and how the new members are getting worse all the time. Another thing I've noticed, here and other forums, is that even though the problematic new members are forever changing, it's always the same group of 4 or 5 senior members that become engaged in the crap threads.
Political discussions (as well as religion) don't go well because they are based in beliefs, not facts. No one wants to be lied to and when someone believes something with everything inside them, being told anything different is a lie and basic human emotion takes over. I'm not the type to take things personally, I'm used to people not agreeing with me and I'm sure that these opinions will be no different.
RiverRat. You stated in a post "I have over 6000 posts in another debate forum", do you just like to argue? I would assume that at least some of the debate post were somewhat political in nature, why are you acting surprised that something was said that wasn't nice? Have you found a forum where you can state over 6K debating post and every response is "nice"?
Fabiodriven, In your own words you state "I purposely do not discuss politics in depth with people because it always ends in a sh!t show. It turns into a fight every single time." then why did you even post in a thread OWS? In the OWS thread you actually said that you didn't want to see threads like that..........then don't open them!
I don't read every thread that gets posted, so I'll read the first few post and have not interest in and won't read additional post. The "let's change this around" thread, I stopped reading after I posted in it. The OWS thread, I never opened until reading this one. This one I opened because of the title. 2 things they each had in common: They all 3 were pretty pointless and you 2 were the reoccurring posters.

[riverrat]

I wasn't saying the new members were the problem, I was saying that I see new members being treated pretty harsh by the old members, for whatever reason.
No I don't like to argue, that's the point, I like to debate though. I have learned so much since I started doing it in 2003. The forum were I debate and discuss, you are required to stay on topic, and back up your facts with links and such. So if I choose to get into it, I better have my facts straight before I blow smoke out of my butt. In doing that, and talking to some very smart people btw, I have learned a great deal, and my typing/writing skills (which still suck) greatly improved. I always hated English. No, every post isn't nice over there, but it is usually dealt with pretty quickly. Discussions are limied to 300 posts, and usually get that far on heated subjects, then go on to part 2. One of the things I've always liked about this forum was that the discussion, up until recently for me, have always been great.

Oh, and of course I would be a reoccurring poster in my own thread.

I am actually pretty proud of how this turned out, and the other thread. If I didn't start that other thread, I would have never learned what i did. I would rather make friends, than enemies. Now when I see fabio at Raffa's, we are going to have some beers together and laugh about this. :beer:

[atc350xer]

Their declaration is impressive, however, all I know of these people is what my wife saw firsthand in downtown Pittsburgh. What she saw was alot of dirty irreverent vandals trashing "private" property. Garbage everywhere, being obnoxious to the public, etc. A guy in one city even took a dump on a car hood. Unfortunately, when you have people like this joining the "party", they become the face of the whole thing, and the original message is lost.

[fabiodriven]

Fabiodriven, In your own words you state "I purposely do not discuss politics in depth with people because it always ends in a sh!t show. It turns into a fight every single time." then why did you even post in a thread OWS? In the OWS thread you actually said that you didn't want to see threads like that..........then don't open them!

Riverrat and myself worked that out as everyone can see, so how about letting sleeping dogs lie? Who wants to start an argument here?


They all 3 were pretty pointless and you 2 were the reoccurring posters.

I actually posted only one time in the "Turn this thing around" thread. That doesn't seem very re-occurring to me.

[ChrisD]

Awwww mannn...that's what I get for not bing around too much. I completely missed the OWS thread. I have all sorts of opinions about that farce. RiverRat and I will have to suck down a few beers and discuss that issue. I've been in the camp in Washington DC. Personally, I feel that the media did everything it could to get that so called movement off the ground. I want to know who "they" are in the OWS declaration. I want to know which people are forced into servitude. I can go on and on. Tyr traveling to another country and get a little perspective before you bash what we have here. I wouldn't trade the US for any other country.

[tulsamike3434]

Hey man, you fired the first shot. All I did was speak the truth. I obviously spend a lot of time on these boards and I've seen my fair share of political discussions go down the crapper faster than a BCredneck frame repair. All I said was that I didn't like what you posted (my opinion) and told you that your thread more than likely wouldn't last long (and I was right as you stated). If you don't want people's opinions then don't post in a public forum. Opinions are like arse holes. Everybody has one and they all stink. It wasn't until after you fired a shot at me that I stated I was going to steer your thread the way I saw fit. You stated your opinion, I said I didn't like it. That's fine, you don't have to like my opinion. But then you take a shot at me. I'm not going to stand for that and there is no reason I should.

I did refer to your first thread as an abortion. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it. I never said anything bad about that thread for days until you took a shot at me. I bit my lip through that entire thread except for my one post, and that post wasn't even directed at you. It was directed at everybody. I happen to know you personally (somewhat, if you remember meeting me at Raffa's) and that's why I didn't say anything bad about you or your thread until you took a shot at me.

Now this is obviously not my site, but if it were there would be something in the title of this forum that states "No political discussions" or something to that effect. Political discussions never, ever end well. And not just on the internet either. I purposely do not discuss politics in depth with people because it always ends in a sh!t show. It turns into a fight every single time. I am not into politics and feel I do not know enough to have a strong opinion in any single direction, but I know what I believe in and I would rather have a smile on my face talking about the time I barrel rolled at Icefest when I was leading my heat or when I farted on some innocent shopper at WalMart.

You don't want to get sh!t from me, don't prod me. F*%k with the bull, you get the horns.


heheheheheh u said sh!t Oh ya and I fart on innocent shopper'z at WalMart too. lol

[350XJEDI]

:twisted:the portland ows crowd was a filthy JOKE, just costing everyone else money!!!:crazy: not a good way to make a postive change or even get your point across!!!!:cool:

[riverrat]

I want to know who "they" are in the OWS declaration. I want to know which people are forced into servitude.

My understanding is that there is no-one in charge. The meetings are held under some weird format so that no-one will ever be in charge, this way the top brass can't get corrupted. I've never seen one positive thing about OWS in the NY media.

[Billy Golightly]

From each according to his ability, to each according to their need. - Karl Marx.


Strange times we live in.

[300rman]

From each according to his ability, to each according to their need. - Karl Marx.


Strange times we live in.

That is EXACTLY where OWS, the Liberal-Progressive politicians, and the Liberal Media are trying so hard to take us....failing to realize that after we produce as much as possible and "they" give us what we need, the "elite" get to keep the excess......and the "elite" class will be much smaller than any of these idiots thinks.

[ChrisD]

The great thing about the US is you have every opportunity to make money, become part if the "elite" or whatever you choose. If you were a businessman and fulfilled the need of the client and
Add enough to put dinner on the table for yourself, should you then work for free? Or give back your profits to your customers? Or should you try to make a better living for yourself? Obama picks $250k in income and calls those people wealthy. Ummmm, not if you live in Boston, New York City, Washington DC, California and a number of other places in the US. You would be getting by, not living like the "elite".

Try breaking out in the caste system in India. Or trying the entrepreneurial in a socialist country.

In reading the proclamation set out by the OWS, it blames the fictional "them". I've been through the camp in Washington DC and it was not some glorious effort. I saw a disorganized group of people sitting around and getting free meals. it is really hard to describe, but one thing tha stuck out at me is thempeople that brought their children to live in tents. I think that was purely irresponsible.

Just like the late 1990's "tech bubble", society's own greed gets on an idea and acts on "group-think" trying to make money on something they know nothing about, nor took the time to learn about, but thought it was a get rich quick thing to buy technology stocks only to get killed when the bubble popped. The housing bubble was the same thing. Was it the realtor trying to get the highest price for a house to get the biggest commission check that was the problem? Was it the mortgage rep trying together the highest commission on the most expensive mortgage product? Was it "Them on Wall Street" offering capital to get houses financed? OR was it everyone's own fault for buying the biggest possible house, even if they could not afford it, because everyone once again acted on group-think because everyone believed you can never lose money in real estate. That, to me, is not Wall Street's fault.

[riverrat]

Back in 1995, we calculated that someone on welfare, receiving all the benefits ($80,000 worth, not including free college for the kids and book allowance) can take home more money than a couple making $250,000 and sending one kid to college. What's wrong with this picture?

These people making a living off of leeching from the system are allowed to vote politicians into office that support that idea. Meanwhile most politicians are only out for one thing, themselves.

I say politicians should not receive a salary, it should be volunteer, like I volunteer for my elected position in my community. I do things because I want them to be better in my community, not because I get some kind of benefit from it. People high up in government should get their expenses paid and that's it. Do a term and get out. Do it for the right reasons to make life better for everyone including themselves once they get out and stop living off our tax dollars. They should also put a efficiency limit on programs and projects within the government and compare them to the outside real world. In other words we should not be paying for $800 toilet seats (if anyone here remembers that story). I would volunteer to be president of the USA if I thought I could make it a better place for all of us and our children.

[JasonB]

Back in 1995, we calculated that someone on welfare, receiving all the benefits ($80,000 worth, not including free college for the kids and book allowance) can take home more money than a couple making $250,000 and sending one kid to college. What's wrong with this picture?

These people making a living off of leeching from the system are allowed to vote politicians into office that support that idea. Meanwhile most politicians are only out for one thing, themselves.

I say politicians should not receive a salary, it should be volunteer, like I volunteer for my elected position in my community. I do things because I want them to be better in my community, not because I get some kind of benefit from it. People high up in government should get their expenses paid and that's it. Do a term and get out. Do it for the right reasons to make life better for everyone including themselves once they get out and stop living off our tax dollars. They should also put a efficiency limit on programs and projects within the government and compare them to the outside real world. In other words we should not be paying for $800 toilet seats (if anyone here remembers that story). I would volunteer to be president of the USA if I thought I could make it a better place for all of us and our children.



I wont partake in political discussions because im just ignorant about them and consider myself to be unimfored about the real details. That said, i do think that politicians should be volunteers.

[Billy Golightly]

The benefits of being in a position of power will almost always outweigh face value monetary compensation. Its why anyone gets into politics, connections and networking.

[YAMAHA_Jim]

Anywho,was reading through this and reminded me of a major tire companies ad I saw on thier truck today "Power is useless without control" :)

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Riverrat: I have nothing against you and you have been an asset to the board with good advice.

But as to OWS, I will never associate myself in any way, shape, or form with that group due to the things I have heard come from the mouths of the protestors themselves, and groups that have aligned with/endorsed OWS (American Nazi Party, American Communist Party) to name a couple from a long list. They talk of TAKING by force from those who have been successful. They are on record spewing alot of anti-semetic venom. This is dangerous stuff.

In no way do I want to diminish their right to peaceful protest. But their protest has for the most part been far from peaceful. They have attempted to block streets and bridges inhibiting others citizens' rights to go about their daily business. WRONG! Citizen A's rights end where citizen B's rights begin... They have defecated on police cars. They are on record taunting police, trying to spark a confrontation making sure the cameras start rolling just in time to record the police doing their job and dispersing an unruly crowd after being cornered. They conveniently fail to record being given ample opportunity and warning well in advance. Once again, this is not lawful, peaceful protest and exercise of the 1st amendment.

I believe the days we are now living will be noted as a turning point in our history. We are at a major fork in the road.

Ideological/political debate is a good and healthy thing. It tells me that many of us are awake enough to make an informed decision on which side we align ourselves with...

This is just one man's take on the events we have witnessed in recent months....

[350XJEDI]

ride-red you got that 100% right ,we have to think before spouting marksis crap, where did that commie/ fascist stuff ever taken any country ? it never works... it always ends badly!!!

[riverrat]

Hey Red, I agree with you almost 100%. I know what I have seen on the news and the like, and I don't agree with those bad things that I see, or the bad ways of protesting. But I never knew what they actually stood for, until my cousin, and a long time friend of the family who are there told me what was going on. My point is how the media masks the truth, just like they did with the zimmerman case editing the 911 call, and showing pictures of the kid from 5 years ago. Just like they did to us and our beloved 3 wheelers. I am sick of it. Makes me wonder about freedom of speech, and freedom of the press. I know how important those things are, but that shouldn't be a licence to lie to us, or distort the truth to further your own agenda. The idea of freedom of speech and press is to give people and equal voice, and a legal opportunity to voice their opinions, but if the people with the most money are being heard the most, then it isn't fair, because they all have an agenda.

After actually reading the OWS complaints, or what they stand for, I then realized that I agree with about 80% of it. It seems pretty American to me the things they are asking for. Even if I don't agree with how the protest all the time. You should take into consideration maybe some of the things they have been through though, and why they are protesting the way they are. They have been mis-treated by the police pretty badly, and maybe that drove one of them to take a dump on a car. I know I have been treated bad by the police before, and they can be some real dousch bags. And where in NYC can you protest? No matter where you set up, it will be an inconvenience to someone. The people who are against them (the media) can just broadcast to millions of viewers and make it seem anyway they want. The only way OWS can get a message out is by getting in people's faces.

Really, I just feel duped by the press on this whole deal, and after learning the truth, felt it my duty to share it with people I know. I am not trying to convince people of anything, or take sides, or start a war, but just share the truth. I get along with just about everyone regardless their political or religious view. I get it, and I am humble.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I hear ya and agree on the not-so-unbiased media these days.

And there are a few points OWS makes that I can relate to, mainly the govt' bailouts and cronie capitalism... case in point, Salindra.. (spelling?)

But from the positions I hear you take, from my point of view you sound like someone who would have more in common with the Tea Party.

[350XJEDI]

:Dthat may be true , Im not in the tea party but i do agree that gov cant and should NOT be waisting tax dollers on bailouts ,privite campany's are not taxpayers problem !!! gov should be cut and cut hard everywhere, the gov employs way to many paperpushers ,managers, slackers, ect... they waist money on stupid porkbarrel projects, they line the pockets of thier freinds ! polititions should be volenteers that get reimbersed for expenes only ,they should not be in it for life!!! all sides of or goverment has been corrupted by$$$$$$ and bad decisions ,:cool:

[riverrat]

I love the tea party. I am an independent, but I lean right. I was raised in NYC, but was a country boy at heart and after 29 years there finally got away (still close though). I get both sides, whether I agree with it or not. I just don't need Robinhood for a government, or do I need government to protect me from myself. But I do need government to protect me from those that would hurt me, rob from me, or destroy/pollute the environment around me. FYI, I do not think atv's destroy environment. Well anyway, it's more than I can go into here.

[tulsamike3434]

HI guys , i read all post and wanted to make sure i stayed on topic . The headline reads The Open Forum........now what that means to me is being able to talk about anything you want ! Without being BULLIED by any member or moderator ! Weather it`s politics , or pimples on your arse ! Theres lots of bullying going on Here.......and that makes it SUCK ! I got banned for sticking up for a new member cause i got sick of the bullys picking on the poor kid....and i`d do it again in a heartbeat ! I thought the bullys were retarded......and i let them know about it ! Things like .....i`m gonna e-mail your post to the police......oh friggin please!! Is that what we have here ? I hope the owner of this website keeps freedom of speech alive and well !! If not.....it aint worthtrailpro .....you got my drift ? Can i get an AMEN ! Oh just in case i missed the topic......OWS is some lame sh!ttrailpro......the only way to get what you want up in diss mofo is to stop paying your taxes and stockpile plenty of AMMO !:p:p:p:banned::p:p:p


AMEN !

There are some members on here who bully people who are not as smart about 3wheelers and want to learn but all the " ARE YOU SERIOUS? " comments when someone asks a simple question. at one time ore another it was not a simple question to them ether! just saying!