250ES Rear End (Fenders & Rack) Pivot Bolt threaded?

[frauke75]

I am hopping someone can save me some time... My ‘85 250es is at another location so I can not see it to figure this out.

Does any one know how the pivot bolt for the rear “hatch” (rear fenders & rack) mounts to the frame?

My whole rear end came loose and I know it was from strapping it down to trailer + rusty bolts.
When I took off the knobs under the seat the whole rear end came off.

The bolts were rusty so I figured they just broke... no big deal - new bolts, drill and tap.
... but now that I am thinking about it...when I looked at it (bad light, late and cold so did not get a chance to really investigate)... there was no brakes, no sharp or shiny spots on the bolts or in the holes on the frame.
Inside the “holes” on the frame that the bolts line up with... I see no thread or broken off bolt just a 1/8" or 1/4" deep pocket smooth and evenly colored (rusty).

Could these pivot bolts not be threaded in?
Are they just sunk into a cavity in the frame and just allowed to pivot on the bolt ends?
That’s what it looks like but I would think Honda would have made that beefier.

I was going to bring along the stuff to drill and tap next time I head up to were it is at, but now I do not know.

If it is not threaded, are they a special bolt with a un-threaded tip? (to “hinge on)

Anyone know how that hinge goes together?

Thanks in advance for any help

[matt22895]

There are four bolts holding the rack and fenders to theframe two on the back just to the right and left of the mud flaps and two under the seat in the pic they are the four pointed knobs but yours probably just has bolts like mine

[frauke75]

Thanks matt22895, wow... what a clean BR... I am jealous!!!

...I knew my explanation was lacking... don’t know how to describe it... but I know what 4 points hold it on. But what I do not know is how. The rear two bolts that go into the frame and on which the whole rear assembly can be pivoted (like a hood). The rear bolts that go into the frame that are also this hinge... run through a bracket that is part of the fender assembly and into the two ends of the frame. Now what I do not know is if the threaded bolts thread into the frame or if they just “pinch” into it, to act like a hinge. (Maybe the bolts had un-threaded tips???)
The frame ends are capped and there is the “hole” were the bolt goes in but it did not look threaded and it bottoms out at a depth of like 1/8" to 1/4". I first thought that this was just the result of broken bolts being in there but I saw no sign that this was the case (could be wrong though). It looks too smooth in there. And the two bolt do not look broke... rusted down badly but not broke.

And thinking about this it seems to make sense that they would not be threaded receptacles because if you would tightened it all up... it would not work well as a hinge.

Looking at your pictures gave me another thought ... what if it is threaded but into some kind of “bearing hinge thing” in the frame tube? ...I will not then be able to drill and tap... it would just spin on me.

I am not expecting anyone to go take it apart to find this out... just thought that someone would have and known. Someone probably does but has no idea what I am describing.

This might have to wait until I go back up there to have a better... calmer look.
I just was hopping to have a plan so that I could do more riding and less fixing.

Thanks again,
Jake

[matt22895]

Lol not my big red just one of of google and the holes on my frame are threaded and the two bolts just screw into them it still works as a pivot just fine id say just tap them and put new bolts in and your done.

[matt22895]

Here are some pics hope they help.

[frauke75]

That was my initial thought but it just looked too darn so smooth... maybe this had been broken for a long time and got smoothed out from riding... and finally the bolts eroded enough to come off.
Because if I had seen even one shiny sliver in there or on the bolts...I would have known.

Now I know what to do and what bring with.

Thanks a lot!!!

[frauke75]

Wow... thanks matt22895... pictures... did not expect that kind of service... I LOVE THIS SITE!!!
(sent the other message before I saw them)

There is NO doubt... they are threaded.

Thanks.

[MRSOUND]

The bolts are shoulder bolts....in other words the threads do not go all the way up to the head of the bolt. There is about 1/4 - 3/8 of unthreaded material under the head. This alllows the bolt to "bottom out" when the thread runs out leaving a solid section of the bolt sticking out from the frame for the rack/fender to pivot on.