86 200X What's next?

[Husky250]

I hope this is the right place to put this thread....... I have all the chasis essentials taken care of on the 86 200x. 300ex modded rear. Got it fired up on the first kick. Every time on the fist kick (but don't stall or it'll take many many kicks to bring it back to life!). Yes she smokes pretty good. Drop her in gear and I can get maybe 1500rpm out of it and she starts cuting out and sputtering pretty bad:confused:. Simple rings and valve seals, perhps an air leak between the carb and head? Seriously don't know alot about 4 strokes:wondering. Did do a Piston/ring/lifter job on the DX but that was a LONG time ago with a manual sitting on my lap; and it took me about a month and a half to finish!. So, where do I start? Compression check, would not know how to check for air leakes.... SIGH:cry:! Somebody donate me a 2 stroke! They are sooo much simpler!

[Husky250]

WOW 40 views and noone has any ideas or direction I should go? Guess I don't rate?

[shortline10]

Adjust the valves and make sure the air screw on the carb is set correctly . Sounds like a simple tune is all .

[Thorpe]

Carb been rebuilt?

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Sounds like a dirty carb to me.......

[TennesseeATC]

Have you cleaned out the carb?? Todays gas goes BAD quick. That may not be the fix but its an easy thing to do to be on the safe side...

[Husky250]

Carb has been cleaned out twice! however, I will try it again at your suggestions!!!!!! Hey it's a place to start! Thanks

[Chazz of Blades]

Valves are a starting place if the carb is fine. FINE TUNE EM.

[Dirtcrasher]

Those motors have the easiest valves to adjust in the world.

Just make sure you read what each line represents, and which way to turn them....

[honda200x1987]

You can clean the carb all you want but most of the time they need to be rebuilt but only use OEM parts if you can. ... Sounds like you are having the same prob I had with my 1987.. You need to replace the MAIN JET in the carbuator as seen in the parts finche #22,cleaning does not fix the prob. You also can try to adjust the air screw at the bottom t the carb as seen in the parts finche #5 that might be the prob it has to be just right.

[Husky250]

Gonna ask a couple questions here....
1) honda200x1987:
Just curious as to what a new Main will do? I mean isn't a hole a hole? I can completely understand seals and what-not. Why would a new hole make the difference? I do know the carb is a bit different from the other 8 carbs in the garage. Is the air screw normal at 1 1/2 turns out, like on most of my other bikes? Is it worth just buying a XR200 carb and going that route? NOt sure if the XR upgrade is only worth while on the 83-85 and not the 86-87. Again, thanks for the info! (dying to get this on the trail before the snow flys!)

2) Dirt crasher/Chazz
Thanks for the input..... Valves absolutely scare the hell out of me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE 2 strokes. Been trying to get a friend over to help me but he's usually drunk.... SIGH! I really need a manual!

[honda200x1987]

You would think a" hole is a hole" these internal parts get worn espesially the main jet. Its more than a hole, the slightest scaring can cause probs, This is what I changed on my 87 200x and now it runs perfect. Also had the same prob with my 86 TRX200SX

[Husky250]

Well it's a cheap try so I'll give that one a shot! Thanks!

[Chazz of Blades]

Valves scared the hell out of me, before I grabbed my feeler gauge, my manual, and dove in. First time I ever done valves was on a 200es, it took me a bit over an hour to do both because I was so scared of not getting it perfectly right. The second gen Xs have an AWESOME valve adjusting system, beats me why Honda didn't use it more.

[audioworks04]

Dont let the valves scare you, they are easier than jetting a carb. I would do a car rebuild, are you sure that when the carb was clean no parts were lost, misplaced or just left out like the o ring or washer on the air/fuel screw? I like to use compressed air to blow through each jet after it is removed. If this gets you no where, you may need to do a leak down test and see if you possibly are loosing compression somewhere.

[Husky250]

Heading out to the garage to re-clean the carb now (yesterday was a bday party). Thanks for the input audioworks! Done a million carbs but hey, perhaps I made a goof! Will struggle through the valves next, bet that takes me a week or so. Think my father in law has a compression checker so that will be next. Thanks again all..... Hoping by next summer I can get on the thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Husky250]

Exactly how close are the 2 marks supposed to be (on the cam and crank)? The flywheel mark is a set of lines that looks like this l l which are extremely hard to keep in the middle. However the mark on the cam adjuster is barely in the window when I get the flywheel centered. DOes this mean that the cam is off a tooth? Another thing.... It says that when adjusting the falves you loosen the adjustment nut (done), and push both valves counter clockwise until you feel resistance then turn clockwise one graduation and tighten. The back one (I assume is the intake) is easily moved and adjusted, the front (exhaust) can not be moved by hand.... at all! It can be moved using some pliers but, obviously, there is no way to feel if you hit any resistance if dont this way... Anyone have input on what would cause this condition and how terminal it's going to be for the trike and my wallet? Thanks again for the help guys!

[200x350xtriz250]

Try rotating the fly wheel another turn - you may be on the wrong stroke if one of the valves won't move.

[Dirtcrasher]

You are 180 out and the "T" and "F" are hard to find; Can any local members help you out, this is such an easy job to do............

DON'T adjust either valve right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take the plug out, much easier to line crap up.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Im pretty sure there is an a large access plug on the stator cover you can remove for access to the flywheel nut. If you remove the sparkplug like DC said, you can use a socket and ratchet on the flywheel nut to get the flywheel positioned exactly right so you can then adjust valves.

[atc007]

Im pretty sure there is an a large access plug on the stator cover you can remove for access to the flywheel nut. If you remove the sparkplug like DC said, you can use a socket and ratchet on the flywheel nut to get the flywheel positioned exactly right so you can then adjust valves.

Correct! Take the center plug out to access the crank bolt. A T handle 17 is the cats ass here. But a socket will work. Next to those lines are A T and a F. Hard to see,and get covered in oil every revolution! If you're due for an oil change,drop it out ,and spray a little gas or degreaser in on the flywheel,cleaning the oil off so you can now SEE the T mark! Plug out,and you've got the rest! Nothing scary going on here. Take your time,and I can tell by your posts,you will get thru this just fine. turn it over slowly by HAND a few times after you're done to make sure nothings bad. Then,after this does NOTHING to make it run better. Rebuild your carb with Honda OE jets and needle. Carb parts are the most finely machined parts on your machine,,and ,YES,,they DO wear out!! That needle has been pulled up and down and slammed back down into the main jet and tube HOW many MILLIONS of times?? Then theres the Vibration! Just sitting there idling,wearing away at the angles of the needle. VERY popular stuff on the older Suzuki King Quads and 250's. You'll get her! And when you do,,you'll be rewarded with one of Hondas MOST refined machines they released.

[Husky250]

Cleaned the carb again, just because that's the easy part.... Did the valves per the manual and it runs exactly the same. So guess now will look for a carb rebuild kit (still noone answering on the xr200 carb on the second generation). Also will see FIL and get his compression checker. (She smokes and smells yucky causing the wife to yell at me evey time I come in out of the garage) P.S. DAMN that thing is LOUD!!!!! Makes my 82 husky seem quiet (Have I mentioned I HATE 4 strokes?)

[oscarmayer]

is the smoking blue smoke or grey/black smoke? if it's blueish, a carb kit will not fix it. it's the pisotn and rings worn.

[Husky250]

Well I got my buddyopver and he's got the balls to tear things apart and the skills to get them back together. We, first, tried to get the valves set the easy way. Buddy was wondering why it was so easy to move the adjusters from side to side (especially the rear one). So we tore the head off and we are able to colapse the valve spring completely with the back of our thumb.... I'm thinking it should have a little more tension than that. He looked at them for a second and proclaimed that the valves were not seating.... OK I'll take his word for it! Piston and cylinder look great!!! We are going to replace the rings though, along with the valves and springs.... SIGH! no idea when this thing will get running though. Would LOVE to ride it with the OTC guys this winter at Summit!

133686133687

[Dirtcrasher]

At least thats the good model head with the ball bearings.......

Just make sure the valve seats are good and you'll be fine.

[shortline10]

Look into the intake port and if their is any black carbon thats a sure sign of a leaky intake valve . Should always be very clean on the intake port side . Exhast would have to be liquid tested .

[RIDE-RED 250r]

A good way to check valves/seats for good seal is take your head, with the valves still installed and poor kerosene into the exhaust port. (just like pouring a drink). Put enough in there till it starts to fill the exhaust port. Now, while holding the head with exhaust port facing up, look at the exhaust valve. If kerosene is flowing through there quickly and in large amounts, your valve and seat need to be ground. No leakage at all is what you are hoping for here. A little tiny drip is runable. Repeat the process with the intake side.

Note: this is not the end-all be-all way to check valves and seats. But this will give you a good idea in a pinch. Prussian blue and a valve grinding machine along with a seat grinding set is the proper way to diagnose valves and seats.

I hope your valves are good. I worked on my buddie's 86 200x back in 95. He had a warped intake valve. I put it on the valve grinding machine, you could see it hopping when the machine was turned on. I ground it down as best I could, but despite my best efforts, it ended up with a knife edge on one side and a more proper edge on the opposite side.... I couldnt find that valve ANYWHERE! Aftermarket or dealer (of course my local Honda dealer we had at that time was as worthless as tits on a boar hog!)....... Maybe they are more available now... And no, you cant use 1st gen 200x valves in your '86.

[Husky250]

Thanks for the info everyone. Looks like I can get the vvalves, it's just money issues now. Had a transformer blow outside the housein a windstorm the other day and fried our powersuppy on this computer, our printer, and of all other thngs, the mouse. $140 later (so the kids can still do homework) and I have to wait a spell to fix the "X"... DAMNIT! I'm sooooo close!:mad: Been about 11 months getting this thing trail worthy!

[Chazz of Blades]

I happen to have a full 86 200X engine sitting in my shop, still bolted to a frame and swingarm actually..............Never had it apart, it did smoke, but acted like it needed rings. If I recall right the second gear was also out on the engine, but it's been so long I don't remember.