My obsession with good oils...

[The Goat]

Guys over the last year or so, I've tried a large variety of oils in bikes.

If you're lucky enough to have a separate Topend/bottom end to me there are three choices. For synthetic: castrol edge and rotella 5w40. For nonsynthetic: rotella.

For wet clutch compatible oils, there are a few more choices: motul 15w50 double ester or 10w60 single. Yamalube 15w50 single ester is also okay. For conventional oils... Honda gn4. Crazy I know, but it's a very consistent oil.

My choices are based on the temps the motor runs at. Switching from amsoil to yamalube on my big 800 led to an extreme drop in heat. Very consistent temps with synthetics, even in extremely high load apps.

I also understand some like to run rotella in wet clutch applications... I did, until I lost a clutch in two bikes launching hard. Since then I'm turned off of running it in such apps.

I do love it in my motors and now run the rotella synthetic exclusively in the car.

Pricewise... You will get raped by most places with the motul, 22$ a quart isn't unheard of. I usually pay about 10$ and do a swap every 25 hours or so. Yes it's way too soon, but I like doing oil changes and simple maintenance. The gn4 can usually be purchased for 5$.



Most probably think I'm crazy and run basic castrol. On a fresh motor with a new clutch, if you break in with gnu and swap to at least a single ester synthetic, you won't look back. The motors run oh so smooth.

Also, a lot of kawasakis seem to like the silkolene, I'm no team green so I don't keep it on hand.

[El Camexican]

Well...allrighty...then?

[Team ATC]

Well...allrighty...then?
haha hes obsessive duh

[pcollins]

Know what else works good? The supertech Walmart brand oil.

[fabiodriven]

I'm glad somebody finally started a thread on oil.

[EarlyBronocGuy]

I'm glad somebody finally started a thread on oil.

Great, now we've started down that slippery slope.

[El Camexican]

Know what else works good? The supertech Walmart brand oil.


THANK YOU for sayin that!!!! :beer One of my dragbike mentors was famous (well, as famous as you can get in Canada) for running $0.99 per Liter (That's like a quart for my Metricaly challenged Gringo friends and about $0.60USD at the time) Canadian tire NUGOLD in his $40,000 nitro funny bike engine. His reasoning was that he was changing it every pass, so why waste the money (and it's made by Shell) It's like paying a fortune for Hog Oil, you're admitting at the checkout that you think the company that closed Buell and consiters a bandana to be head protection is so smart that they make (or design) better oil than Shell can (at a fraction of the cost) Yea right!!!!!!! :crazy: I don't recal ever seeing any articals about a Yamaha oil refinery either, but I did see an Imperial Oil stamp on the bottom of a Yamalube jug once upon a time. I know I'm a jerk for saying this, but the post is missing the basic listing of research methods that would be required to get above an "F" in a 3rd grade science lab report. So unless "The Goat" is a pseudo name for Terry Vance, or Kenny Roberts I suggest the author invest in a class on the proper use of a hand clutch before his next post.

[motordude]

I'm glad somebody finally started a thread on oil.


:lol: Never gets old, makes my day! Thanks

[GeoD]

Hey Goat (or anyone else). Ever try Royal Purple?

http://www.royalpurple.com/motorcycle-oil.html

[El Camexican]

Hey Goat (or anyone else). Ever try Royal Purple?

http://www.royalpurple.com/motorcycle-oil.html

Not, me but a friend of mine that likes to spend money swears by it. I prefer spending my cash on the other "Crown" that comes in a purple bag:beer

[dougspcs]

I'm glad somebody finally started a thread on oil.

You know what I love about 3WW??? Consistency!!

Sooner or later someone is gonna start a thread about what oil to use..

Then shortly later Fabio will show up to give them a little bitchslap!!

Love it!!!

[El Camexican]

You know what I love about 3WW??? Consistency!!

Sooner or later someone is gonna start a thread about what oil to use..

Then shortly later Fabio will show up to give them a little bitchslap!!

Well, I for one am not scared to stand up and admit that I use and highly recommend clean, wet, slippery, name brand oil for most motorized applications (and a few nocturnal activities as well:naughty:) and am prepaired to defend any brand that exhibits these charactaristics even when faced with threats of bitchslappery! I do however draw the line at man on man motor oil wrestling to settle the score. If it ever gets that far, I'm out!:lol:

[RID3R]

Fabio and oil... What did I miss?

[fabiodriven]

Well, there was that thing with the blow up doll, the wild boar, and the 5 gallon pail of KY, but I assume you're talking about motor oil.

Every week without failure some clown starts a thread on oil. There has to be thousands of threads on oil here that can easily be resourced with a simple search. This is the second one this week.

[atc007]

I'm glad somebody finally started a thread on oil.

Never gets old does it guys!!! How bout it Doug!

[RIDE-RED 250r]

You guys should see the oil threads in sled forums! This is nothing....

[atc007]

I will weigh in my 2 coppers. Oil is oil. It lubricates,,and as long as it 's CLEAN,,it is good. However,,oil is not oil !! There ARE some way better than others,,I read what the goat said,and filed it away. I will say this from personal experience.. Back when I cared deeply about my street rides. I added a additive very similiar to Z max in my new IROC Z 350 TPI,4000 miles. Probably the 3rd or 4th oil change.. I KNEW this car ,in and out upside down!! I added the juice after the fresh oil,,and we stood there and listened to the idle climb!! She idled at 750 before the treatment,,1430 after.. Gas mileage went up 20%. Complete different car. Fast forward,this spring,I put Zmax in my Saturn Outlook,"cool huh!!" Nothing,,I have not noticed anything different. My other one that stands out. Honda Foreman ES 450. I have sold a LOT of new ones over the years,,had one that would not shift electrically. Older fella that had drug his feet 3 or 4 years,,bough the Honda on MY reccomendation! He ended up using the temp shifter 100 times to get that dam thing home. Honda could do nothing for him. He was understandably irate, $6000 into a bike that would NOT work for him! I will be specific,,as what has transpired over the years has been NOTHING short of a miracle.. God I hate typing!!!!!! He brought it in for the year service,,I drained the oil,flushed the engine with gas,,Put in Wal Mart pure synthetic. Ten miles later,,he had THE most buttery ,soft,quiet shifting machine you have ever heard of. he called me 3 weeks straight!! Telling me what a genius I was. He though as the oil got older,,it would start back to it's old way! It only got better. He still reminds me EVERY service,," pure synthetic,,don't care WHAT it costs!". 2 years ago,,someone who should remain nameless,,,,left the oil drain bolt loose.. He calls a few hours after getting home,,,As soon as I heard his voice,, I remembered! Well, I just bought YOU a new engine,I told him. He was going up thru the woods,,it seemed warmer than usual,and started sounding bad,then quit. He got off,looked around,saw a little oil,,FOUND the plug,,over 1/2 mile back down in the woods! Downhill,he was climbing! With no oil. I took a new plug over,put in Pennzoil Semi synthetic,,the closest I could find in our little town! And it has Never missed a beat since. 3000 miles and almost 3 years later. OIL,,,,,and OIL ALONE ,,,FIXED this machine from useless garbage,,to THE smoothest dam machine I have ever ridden!! It's NOT that it just started shifting,,it is Heads and shoulders over the Hundreds of Rancher,Foremans and Recon ES"S I have rode. I have more stories,,but Fabio just couldn't take it!! lol,,JKA !

[El Camexican]

Well there was this guy at work named Lenny years ago that had a VW rabbit diesel and he used to screw around with it all the time and could not go for a day without bragging about what vast improvments his tinkering and additives were making. Then one day during a cold brown bottle emptying session:beer that Lenny was absent for we decided to invest a few bucks as a group and started adding fuel to his tank when the opportunity permitted:naughty: We started small and worked our way up. This went on for over a month and everyday Lenny would boast of his incredible mileage. It got to the point that he was practicaly getting 80MPG when we stopped adding and started siphoning it back out. Small amounts at first and them more and more:twisted: Well poor old Lenny stopped talking about that milage, so we had to promt him a lot "Hey Lenny, how's the car running? What did you do to it this weekend?" You could see the pain in his eyes as he would answer "She's alright, thanks" :( Anyway, thats all I have to say about that. True story and we never told him about it;)

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Now THATS funny!!!

[The Goat]

I've run multiple engine oils in different motors at consistent Rpms and monitored either temp, or times between rad fan coming on. With Rpms, load, ambient temp, and speed (air flow) being equal.... It's safe to attribute the changes in temperature to what oil was used.

Different motors run differently on different oils. Some hondas won't run or shift at all with some oils. Redline and royal purple being ones that always popped up in the shop with issues.

Obviously you can't take it or leave it.

As for learning to operate a clutch, both bikes were autos with low miles.

Royal purple always made my car idle very smooth, but the fan would constant run trying to keep the temps down.

I've seen tons of rhinos that will burn 10w40 yamalube all day long because of how hot it gets, gn4 in the same units and the oil level stays perfect.

Newer rancher ats sometimes have problems shifting, dump 0w40 amsoil in it, and they run cooler with zero issues.

Had a guy with a big red SxS on a jobsite that was run 18 hours a day on average, day in day out. He was routinely burning gn4 20w50. We swapped him over to double ester motul and he's able to push his oil changed to 250 hours... And it comes out nice and clean.

Oils make a big difference in the way a bike runs. I suppose you can decide if it's worth it or not. For me, it most certainly is.

I'm not above draining the motul out of my bike and tossing it in the lawn mower. Even the vtwin briggs runs cooler.

[El Camexican]

I'm not above draining the motul out of my bike and tossing it in the lawn mower

Any other lawnmower lubricant suggestions, or is Motul the best for all of them? Mine is a LawnBoy, single cyl. with 3.5 HP at the blade, 5" rims on the front and 7" on the rear with stock axles (its the green model). I still have the same oil in it that it came with in 2008 and was thinking of changing it soon, but not till after 2012 (I figure why spend the time and money if the Mayans are right about the end of the world?) Anyway, if I do step up and make that investment I want to make sure I make the right choice as I intend to leave it in there for at least another 4 years. I also have a Homelite weedwacker that I've been running PJ1 Goldmix in at 36:1 (The guy at Lowes where I bought it said to use 40:1 but the manuel said 32:1, so I figured I'd stay in the middle. you know, don't want to offend anyone). Anyway it came with Homelite oil, but after that ran out I switched to the PJ1 Silvermix, but I was having trouble with some of the thicker weeds, but then when I went to the Goldmix it cut them like they were paper, no problems, ever. but it does seem to run hotter and it idles way too low now, do you think the stock Homelite oil will make it run better?

[The Goat]

a little ranting in my thread from new kids isn't gonna bother me... You haven't seen the epic thread jackings of yesteryear.

[tecat-z]

Very simple for me...

2 stroke powervalve apps-- 40:1 Yamalube 2R with quality lead fuel. I NEVER rely on Garbage pump gas for anything performance oriented.(esp carbed 2 strokes) Too many variables .
2 stroke non-powervalve-- 40:1 Klotz Super Techniplate with fuel stated above
2 stroke transmission--Yamalube trans oil plus
4 stroke 3wheeler--Yamalube 10-50 semi-syn


High perf 4 stroke 250f-450f i run 100:1 yamalube 2R with cut pump gas and lead VP.

These lubricants have provided me with great and reliable performance for nearly 25yrs. I use what works!

[El Camexican]

a little ranting in my thread from new kids isn't gonna bother me... You haven't seen the epic thread jackings of yesteryear.

So you’re on to me eh? Ok, I’ll stop and self administer some sort of punishment (would a hangover this coming Sunday be a reasonable castigation for my mockery?) Further more I promise to leave your threads alone in the future providing (pay attention here, it’s a biggie) that you add things like ambient air temperature, relative air density, base RPM, fuel octane (oh and if its not too much of a bother, the model and year of the car) when you post future conclusions of oil performance based on the amount of times your radiator cooling fan came on. I sure hope you kept the garage door open when you did those tests, but if not please say so as it has to be factored in with your conclusions.

I love an abstract conversation as much as the next bench racer, you pick it; fuel, oil, bolt torque, gaskets, tires, air filters etc, bra size of the average Harley chick, its all fair game and everyone has an opinion to share, but having had my young sponge like mind bombarded with “absolute” comments from trusted adults like: “A Ford can NEVER beat a Chevy in a race”, “ALL Yamahas are better than Hondas” or “ALL Democrats are commies” (well, ok I guess that last one was true) which I later was forced to wipe clean from my mind in order to grow up and not sound like an idiot when speaking about such things in the company of those more enlightened to such topics.

I guess my point is that somewhere out there today is an innocent kid that read your all knowing post and is now worried that his treasured Honda XR might not run or shift soon because he put Royal Purple in the crankcase and you’re the reason. Now imagine him in a few years trying to sound like he knows something in front of his peers and telling a story about how he saved his Honda by dumping $20 worth of oil out of it “just in time”. If I was John Williams I’d sue you for proof of that asinine comment.

Same goes for burning out clutches in “auto” bikes. I weight 200# and can smoke a clutch out of anything I sink my fat arse into if that were to be my intention, but I’ve sent my Gixxer down the drag strip in the 10’s more times than I can count and the allegedly weak stock clutch is just fine. The result of getting drunk at the family BBQ, putting your kid’s mini-bike against the garage wall with your full weight on the seat and loading the clutch up while trying to do a dry burn-out to impress your aging, but still doable second cousin is not the fault of an oil brand. Next time use water (or beer) on the tire and she might not think you’re a total dork for smoking your kid’s clutch. I’ll stop now and spare you my hypothesis of the circumstances that might have lead to the second fried clutch.

Peace.

[The Goat]

Poor bebe has to jump into stereotypes.

Joking or not, depending on the bike, royal purple can cause damage. A rincon with royal purple can rev up and suddenly shift into gear when oil pressure rises enough.

Of course, that's the reason I said every motor is different.

Honda air cooled motors do love oil with greater temp ranges. I melted valve seals in a few doing simple yard work.

Is my opinion biased? Not really. I simply stated oils that worked for me.

[El Camexican]

Wow! The way you tell it I can't belive the roads (and lawns) of America aren't jammed up with blown engines from all this crap oil on the market. Maybe that's what caused all those Toyotas to drive into buildings?

[The Goat]

If you can't read English well, it isn't my fault... Most of my fiancee's people find themselves here illegally.

I said, temps are lower, motors run smoother. Sorry your abuelita didnt teach you proper English.

[El Camexican]

If you can't read English well, it isn't my fault... Most of my fiancee's people find themselves here illegally.

I said, temps are lower, motors run smoother. Sorry your abuelita didnt teach you proper English.

My inglush is just fine Sr. Cabron, thanks and congrants on the wetback wife thing. So let me get this straight, are you now saying that your Honda lawnmowers just got hot, or are you sticking to your original statement of “I melted valve seals in a few doing simple yard work” ? Not one, “a few” How did you do that? Did get you a job cutting grass at a golf course with a 22” blade mower 12 hours a day? Did your future brother-in-laws get you that gig?

I don’t know you well enough to be sure, but the words “crack pot” are screaming from your posts , I just can’t figure which of the two you are high on when you type these fables.

[HondaRidr]

Why the f*** don't you leave the thread El Camexican? All The Goat did was share some oils that he has had good luck with. He was contributing something unlike you.

[fabiodriven]

I've personally never seen melted valve seals. I'm not doubting it's possible, but from light yardwork? :wondering

My guess is be there would be more to blame than just a brand of oil, let alone a synthetic advertised as a performance oil.

[hoosierlogger]

My god there is all kinds of good reading on here tonight.

[badass350x]

My god there is all kinds of good reading on here tonight.

I think so!! Lol

[The Goat]

Lol

Melted valve seals in Honda air cooled atvs. Driving around land towing a small trailer with a sprayer on it. High load, low speed, it's happened with 300s and 450s. As a testament to the Honda design, they still run fine, even as they smoke more and more. The seals don't completely melt, but they fail where they contact the valve. In both instances they guides were fine. These older aircooled motors can go way past the temperature point where they should fail quite catastrophically.

I'm simple saying, use an oil with a higher temperature range that's at least a single ester, And your motors will be better able to cope.


Laughing yet Xowner? Billy?

Why is it my simple discussions and threads always seem to rile up the riff raff. :idiot:

[The Goat]

Aw that gif isn't here anymore?

That sucks.

[El Camexican]

Why the f*** don't you leave the thread El Camexican? All The Goat did was share some oils that he has had good luck with. He was contributing something unlike you.

Then he should post it in the fiction section where it belongs.

[The Goat]

Easy chupacabra.

Don't like it, don't read it. But don't tout it as fiction because you don't believe it.

All of the above instances were on my own bikes, or dealt with customer bikes that were brought to the dealership. Reality does tend to outweigh your opinion.

Different motors repond to different oils in different ways. Finding what works for yours is half the fun.

[El Camexican]

Don't like it, don't read it

That is some darn good advice, I will stop reading and just wait for the movie to come out. For best results I suggest April 1st for the premier.

[GeoD]

There has to be thousands of threads on oil here that can easily be resourced with a simple search.

With almost 4500 posts haven't you figured out that most people like to be spoon fed? Clicking on that search button and typing words in it means...WORK!!! LOL!! As an admin of another three wheeler forum I quickly realized this and grew tired of the same questions being ask ALL THE DAMN TIME!! So much so that I started a notepad document with all the links to the answers of these often asked questions. Somebody new would ask, I would copy and paste and send. I can totaly understand your frustration Fab. So, what kinda of oil do you use!!!? LOL!!!

[The Goat]

There are many other oil threads. I didn't ask a question. I was simply giving my opinion based on interactions with my own bikes or previous customers' bikes. I had no interest in adding my thoughts to an unrelated thread.

[RID3R]

Goat, if you haven't noticed there is a little group running around where they all agree with each other and exchange post likes, they think their cool.. They also bait and join together when one tries to defend themselves. Usually they succeed as most don't know how to handle the situation, leading to someone being banned or taking it upon them self to leave the site. They have no true opinion, similar to ones that go to the party just because every one else did. I know this wont happen with you, I just need to say it.

El Camexican, your mouth and charm probably has a lot with your success, wherever you stand today. Actions are another thing, lets face it... you wouldn't even be on this forum cause of getting laughed away without such.... That "KTM" trike was pure stupidity. Of course no one would make it a point for you to realize this, as you have begun your journey to becoming one of them... who look for targets.

[El Camexican]

Goat, if you haven't noticed there is a little group running around where they all agree with each other and exchange post likes, they think their cool.. They also bait and join together when one tries to defend themselves. Usually they succeed as most don't know how to handle the situation, leading to someone being banned or taking it upon them self to leave the site. They have no true opinion, similar to ones that go to the party just because every one else did. I know this wont happen with you, I just need to say it.

El Camexican, your mouth and charm probably has a lot with your success, wherever you stand today. Actions are another thing, lets face it... you wouldn't even be on this forum cause of getting laughed away without such.... That "KTM" trike was pure stupidity. Of course no one would make it a point for you to realize this, as you have begun your journey to becoming one of them... who look for targets.

Sorry you feel that way. I take issue with the spreading of unfiltered BS and this particular pathological embellisher for what he originally posted. Dozens of outrageous claims with zero proof to back them up (have you even read them?). Sorry, but if someone tells me they have a cat that barks I want to see a video.

I’ll give you credit for noticing and pointing out my occasionally “charming” computer personality and I’ll even confess I’d likely be a little more PC if I was dicussing this face to face with this guy, at least for the first few minutes, so thanks for that, I’ll try to be less of a dick and tone it down a bit in the future when typing.

As far as my “KTM” trike, as one person said “look up the word pseudo”. I like it and there isn’t another trike like it on the planet and the biker acquaintances of mine (most of which own KTMs) that have seen it in the flesh have drooled puddles on my shop floor. That said the only one who “has to” like it is me. I’ll add that if you go back through the posts on it I don’t recall jumping anyone that didn’t like it. If fact the person that gave me the most grief over it has turned out to be a pretty decent guy. So if you do want to jump in and trash the decals go ahead (oh wait, you already did!) I’ll sit back and take my medicine, as I knew there would be people that hated it, but keep in mind that if you're going to critique the trikes of others you should really post a photo of your's for a healthy inspection as well. That is to say whenever you get around to owning one again.

[RID3R]

Sorry you feel that way. I take issue with the spreading of unfiltered BS and this particular pathological embellisher for what he originally posted. Dozens of outrageous claims with zero proof to back them up (have you even read them?). Sorry, but if someone tells me they have a cat that barks I want to see a video.

I’ll give you credit for noticing and pointing out my occasionally “charming” computer personality and I’ll even confess I’d likely be a little more PC if I was dicussing this face to face with this guy, at least for the first few minutes, so thanks for that, I’ll try to be less of a dick and tone it down a bit in the future when typing.

As far as my “KTM” trike, as one person said “look up the word pseudo”. I like it and there isn’t another trike like it on the planet and the biker acquaintances of mine (most of which own KTMs) that have seen it in the flesh have drooled puddles on my shop floor. That said the only one who “has to” like it is me. I’ll add that if you go back through the posts on it I don’t recall jumping anyone that didn’t like it. If fact the person that gave me the most grief over it has turned out to be a pretty decent guy. So if you do want to jump in and trash the decals go ahead (oh wait, you already did!) I’ll sit back and take my medicine, as I knew there would be people that hated it, but keep in mind that if you're going to critique the trikes of others you should really post a photo of your's for a healthy inspection as well. That is to say whenever you get around to owning one again.

I understand ridiculous oil threads and post but this is not one of them. It was an opinion based on ones experience. Whether you think its BS does not matter - How about this... Take a step back and realize this forum would actually be a little bit better place without you and anyone else with their overly expressed opinions thinking your doing anyone a "service" here.

I'm glad you like your trike, it is without a doubt the only one on this planet as with anything. I never mentioned your trike until now so lets get that straight, and I do not hate it. I'm not critiquing the trike, its a machine. I look at you, who took so much time and money to make it look so nice yet fail to go the extra mile with any fabrication to justify the ridiculous stickers applied after all. If I don't like it move on, right? Well you can do the same here and next time.

[El Camexican]

I understand ridiculous oil threads and post but this is not one of them. It was an opinion based on ones experience. Whether you think its BS does not matter - How about this... Take a step back and realize this forum would actually be a little bit better place without you and anyone else with their overly expressed opinions thinking your doing anyone a "service" here.

I'm glad you like your trike, it is without a doubt the only one on this planet as with anything. I never mentioned your trike until now so lets get that straight, and I do not hate it. I'm not critiquing the trike, its a machine. I look at you, who took so much time and money to make it look so nice yet fail to go the extra mile with any fabrication to justify the ridiculous stickers applied after all. If I don't like it move on, right? Well you can do the same here and next time.

Your persistence has convinced me, I see the light! Rather than question, or doubt I will use the teachings of Mr. Goat to enhance my life for the better. From now on I will not stand in front of any Rincon that has Royal Purple in it, as I have learned from Mr. Goat that it can rev up and shift into gear without warning. I vow to look at the temp gauge on my Ford (that never seems to move) and keep the windows down so I can count how many times my cooling fan comes on, be it summer, or winter. I will do this over the course of my 3,000 mile oil change intervals, faithfully noting the date, time and duration of each relay click (or maybe I should just wire the relay to the horn, so I don’t have to keep the windows down all the time?) I will find religion as much of my seat time will be spent asking God to keep me from wrecking while my attention is on taking notes and praying that my valve seals don’t melt during the test. And after I have tested 20 different oils over the course of the next 5 years I will determine which was best and run it for the next 40,000 miles or more of it’s life. Unfortunately I will have to repeat this with my next car as well, as every engine is different. And I will do all of this because you have convinced me that a guy who once worked at a dealership as a bike jockey/delivery guy said to do it. AND LET’S BE CLEAR THAT I AM NOT SAYING THAT WITH MALICE TOWARDS ANYONE WITH OR WITHOUT A JOB OF ANY KIND.

As far as my “KTM” three wheeler shortcomings I hold my head in shame. I am so sorry for only putting $6,000 into it. I am sorry for only driving through a drug war hot zone to pick up the trike and parts a half dozen times and not making that added trip to pick up a KTM. I am sorry for only spending about 300 hours grinding, welding and polishing it’s parts. I am sorry for not tossing a perfectly good Tri-Z engine out and spending the extra $3,000 and 50 or so hours on buying, importing and properly rebuilding a 300 KTM engine for a trike that I will likely ride less than 6 times a year, but most of all I regret and profusely apologize for not consulting YOU about all this first. In hindsight I have to ask myself “What was I thinking???” Here you are, the all knowing guy who couldn’t get his Tecate buttoned and sent it off in boxes, all full of knowledge and wisdom and all I had for knowhow going into this was just shy of 30 years of riding and fixing experience. I should have realized that working with metal since I was 16, building prototypes and production suspension tooling and components from paper to pavement that your ass has likely ridden on at some point (public transportation buses) Should have been my red flag to drop my welder and call you before proceeding. But no, I was stubborn. I figured my drag bike chassis and engine experience would be enough to get me over the hump on this project, but as you have pointed out I have failed… Please, send me a samurai sword and I promise to do the right thing by taking it straight to a pawn shop and using the cash for a KTM engine! Until then I suggest that if you want to get into a pissing contest with me, that you and your sensei Mr. Goat best stock up on water, cuz I ain’t going anywhere.

[Dirtcrasher]

I've personally never seen melted valve seals. I'm not doubting it's possible, but from light yardwork? :wondering

My guess is be there would be more to blame than just a brand of oil, let alone a synthetic advertised as a performance oil.

I melted a couple in that 55 gallon drum I use for junk heads :D

I use Walmart oil in all my (used once in awhile trikes)

I use Rotella (can be found at Wally world cheap) or Valvoline VR1 (NAPA) in any engine I put some time and money into.

Old oil would be fine, but the new oil is missing the additives we need to keep friction down - that is all...............................:beer

[Twilight]

I learned the price long ago about oils. Especially in a 2 stroke. Fact is the better the oil, the better life your engine has. My friends say im stupid for putting valvoline in my lawnmower. Well that was my grandpa's lawnmower and its still going strong 30 years later.

I always use Motul in my NSR when I had her, and the honda GN2 2-stroke oil that was reccomended. Was my daily commuter and never had a hiccup.

Engine do need very little to run. But would you really wanna compromise its life over a few bucks in better name stuff?

Air- Good filter, well oiled, kept clean.
Oil- Synthetic, less friction, changed when needed, not when overdue
Gas- Less ethanol added the better IMO.

[fabiodriven]

I learned the price long ago about oils. Especially in a 2 stroke. Fact is the better the oil, the better life your engine has.

I would sideline a machine for the day, be it a weed wacker, a trike, or anything for that matter before I use cruddy two stroke oil. Good two stroke oil is a must.

[RID3R]

Your persistence has convinced me, I see the light! Rather than question, or doubt I will use the teachings of Mr. Goat to enhance my life for the better. From now on I will not stand in front of any Rincon that has Royal Purple in it, as I have learned from Mr. Goat that it can rev up and shift into gear without warning. I vow to look at the temp gauge on my Ford (that never seems to move) and keep the windows down so I can count how many times my cooling fan comes on, be it summer, or winter. I will do this over the course of my 3,000 mile oil change intervals, faithfully noting the date, time and duration of each relay click (or maybe I should just wire the relay to the horn, so I don’t have to keep the windows down all the time?) I will find religion as much of my seat time will be spent asking God to keep me from wrecking while my attention is on taking notes and praying that my valve seals don’t melt during the test. And after I have tested 20 different oils over the course of the next 5 years I will determine which was best and run it for the next 40,000 miles or more of it’s life. Unfortunately I will have to repeat this with my next car as well, as every engine is different. And I will do all of this because you have convinced me that a guy who once worked at a dealership as a bike jockey/delivery guy said to do it. AND LET’S BE CLEAR THAT I AM NOT SAYING THAT WITH MALICE TOWARDS ANYONE WITH OR WITHOUT A JOB OF ANY KIND.

As far as my “KTM” three wheeler shortcomings I hold my head in shame. I am so sorry for only putting $6,000 into it. I am sorry for only driving through a drug war hot zone to pick up the trike and parts a half dozen times and not making that added trip to pick up a KTM. I am sorry for only spending about 300 hours grinding, welding and polishing it’s parts. I am sorry for not tossing a perfectly good Tri-Z engine out and spending the extra $3,000 and 50 or so hours on buying, importing and properly rebuilding a 300 KTM engine for a trike that I will likely ride less than 6 times a year, but most of all I regret and profusely apologize for not consulting YOU about all this first. In hindsight I have to ask myself “What was I thinking???” Here you are, the all knowing guy who couldn’t get his Tecate buttoned and sent it off in boxes, all full of knowledge and wisdom and all I had for knowhow going into this was just shy of 30 years of riding and fixing experience. I should have realized that working with metal since I was 16, building prototypes and production suspension tooling and components from paper to pavement that your ass has likely ridden on at some point (public transportation buses) Should have been my red flag to drop my welder and call you before proceeding. But no, I was stubborn. I figured my drag bike chassis and engine experience would be enough to get me over the hump on this project, but as you have pointed out I have failed… Please, send me a samurai sword and I promise to do the right thing by taking it straight to a pawn shop and using the cash for a KTM engine! Until then I suggest that if you want to get into a pissing contest with me, that you and your sensei Mr. Goat best stock up on water, cuz I ain’t going anywhere.


Your making a big deal out of nothing, your sarcasm is not even funny. Why could you of not of taken what Goat said with a grain of salt? One comment of your opinions would of been enough. I'm sure the reason is wanting to seemingly fit in with the in-crowd around here.

You should switch to invisible mode, so when you read my replies minutes after I don't know you going off to dig up anything to personally attack me with. Why must you then tell me about all your experience? Sounds like your the one who wants a pissing match. I'm done with you. Your a little pathetic and don't make sense.

[fabiodriven]

And the name calling begins. It just reeks of desperation...

Since when did you become the be-all end-all on what's relevant and what's not Rid3r? You disappear for two plus years and show up on here with your chest puffed out like you know what's going on, pointing fingers at everybody else and how much we irritate you. You've always given me a hard time since day one. What you don't know is that during the time you've been gone the very same people that used to give me infractions and ban me have become friends of mine. I've participated in the community by doing favors for other people, done business with others (even you at one point I think), and I even went to Trikefest this year. Drove 16 hours each way to get there and I'll be going back next year as well.

You're accusing the Mexican-Canuck of picking fights with other people. All I'm going to say is those that live in glass houses.....

I happen to think El-Camexican is making some very valid points. Now I like both The Goat, the Canuck, and yourself equally (even though you don't like me, but that's OK), but the Canuck is actively participating in this thread with his questions and his points. He may come across as snide (Like some other guys I know) and he is most certainly witty, but in the end he has a point to make and questions regarding the OP's "facts".

Seems to me you picked a fight with somebody who may have showed up a little better equipped than yourself, so stand down as you were. :)

No hard feelings to anybody.

[El Camexican]

And the name calling begins. It just reeks of desperation...

Since when did you become the be-all end-all on what's relevant and what's not Rid3r? You disappear for two plus years and show up on here with your chest puffed out like you know what's going on, pointing fingers at everybody else and how much we irritate you. You've always given me a hard time since day one. What you don't know is that during the time you've been gone the very same people that used to give me infractions and ban me have become friends of mine. I've participated in the community by doing favors for other people, done business with others (even you at one point I think), and I even went to Trikefest this year. Drove 16 hours each way to get there and I'll be going back next year as well.

You're accusing the Mexican-Canuck of picking fights with other people. All I'm going to say is those that live in glass houses.....

I happen to think El-Camexican is making some very valid points. Now I like both The Goat, the Canuck, and yourself equally (even though you don't like me, but that's OK), but the Canuck is actively participating in this thread with his questions and his points. He may come across as snide (Like some other guys I know) and he is most certainly witty, but in the end he has a point to make and questions regarding the OP's "facts".

Seems to me you picked a fight with somebody who may have showed up a little better equipped than yourself, so stand down as you were. :)

No hard feelings to anybody.

Well said, not rude, not too personal (I don't think) and points well made, thanks for having the guts to step into a food fight with a clean shirt on. I suggest Rider, Goat and myself all drop this and get on with life. Agreeing to disagree is going to be my suggestion at this point. It was starting to look like some people were actualy going to start talking about oil here, so let's let them. Heck, give me a few hours to GSD here at home I'll even post one about a legitimate experiance I had once. Peace to all.

[GeoD]

So from what little I've heard about Royal Purple I'm gathering it's not only over priced but some people are having issues with their rides after they use it. I guess I will stick to old reliable. Honda GN4.

[El Camexican]

So here is my “constructive” four stroke oil related contribution to this forum posting:

STORY ONE: Years ago I was responsible for the maintenance and care of a bike engine that was making nearly 200hp. It was professionally built and the builder, who apprenticed under Byron Hines of Vance & Hines, recommended that we use Mobil 1 5W30 and change it after every weekend of use. We did so religiously until the bike’s power suddenly dropped off half way through the season. After a leak-down test showed all was still tight and true we pulled the valve cover off to find that the cam lobes were a lot rounder that they were when we’d last set the lash. Immediately the “know it all” crowd came out of the comfort of the peanut gallery seats (ya’ll are old enough to know what those are right?, well if not here’s a link) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanut_gallery and started to tells us what we’d done wrong. Every single one of them blamed the synthetic Mobil 1 oil. “It’s too light”, “old motors can’t run synthetic oil”, “cams need conventional oils”, “You should run 40 weight oil” and on and on it went. What we learned at the end of our research was as follows:
- We had too much of the oil going into the bottom end of the motor and not enough getting to the top were it was needed more, so we had to restrict the flow to the crank and run remote lines up to the cams (everyone does this nowadays, but it was fairly new back then)
- We should have been using a higher pressure set of oil pump gears
- We should have opened up the lash a couple of thousandths from the original specs to allow a little more heat to dissipate and a little more oil to get on the pads
20 some years later the cams remain in use on this bike until such time as a crankshaft breaks and sends the pistons into the valves so hard that they shatter the cams, or the timing chain fails, which is fairly rare, but cam wear is a thing of the past and it had nothing to do with the oil and everything to do with the circumstances of the application at hand.
From this experience I chose to run Mobil 1 in my 1000 GSXR, for three reasons 1. It’s engine is made from some questionably light materials that I would like to protect as best as I can. 2. Because it sits dormant for long periods and synthetic oil is said to be much better at absorbing and neutralizing contaminates in oil. 3. I can buy it at Wal-Mart.

STORY TWO: Back in the 80’s a certain famous Valvoline sponsored Top Fuel team was seen filling empty Valvoline containers with Pennzoil behind the trailer before taking them out to the front to drain them into the 500ci engine in front of all the fans and sponsors. I did not see this personally, but I can vouch for the guy that claims he did. Call BS if you want, I won’t argue it, I would too if I didn’t know the source. From this I have decided to run Pennzoil in pretty much every other 4 stroke I own, but I’ve never been concerned about using any other name brand oil in a pinch. The fact that it seems to turn dark faster than most other oils I’ve used in the past (mostly Quaker Stake and Valvoline) tells me it is likely absorbing more crud. At least that is what I’m hoping.

STORY THREE: A friend of mine that works for Caterpillar pretty high up the ladder, oh heck, lets not down play this. He’s worked on four continents for them and makes more money than I’d know what to do with. He told me that after used oil analysis tests started finding crud that should not have been in the samples, they started doing research and found that the contaminates (mostly metal shavings and grit) were coming from the bulk metal drums the oils were being transported and stored in. They also concluded that there was a lot less crap in the plastic jugs, but enough still that they were recommending that new oil be filtered before being added to the engines regardless of where it came from. From this I have decided I will try to avoid oil from a metal drum in my vehicles and besides never “shaking” my oil jugs I usually leave a little in the bottom just in case there is crud settled in there. Since being told about this I have occasionally seen small particles in the bottom of my Pennzoil cans, so I don’t doubt this at all.

STORY FOUR: My mother drove 5.5 miles to work and back in her new Ford wagon for about three years. My father swore by Quaker State oil all his life and used it in this car as well. One spring when the car was about 3 years old we noticed the dip-stick was coming out with yellow goo all over it. We changed the oil, but a few days later the goo was back we were intrigued enough that we decided to pull the valve covers. Inside we found them full of yellow jelly that looked like lithium grease We’ll it turns out that oil does some pretty strange things when it’s not run up to operating temperature. There is nothing wrong with Quaker State oil, but the oil in my mother’s car was loaded with moisture that was unable to evaporate from the oil because that 5.5 mile winter ride was not getting the oil/engine hot enough to turn the water, which forms in a crankcase because of the condensation that occurs during the first few minutes a motor is run, to vaporize. In hindsight she should have been using a light weight synthetic oil, but instead my dad just suggested that she let me take the car out on Friday nights each week and the problem was solved (The Dukes of Hazzard was popular at the time and radar guns were few and far between). On that same topic my neighbors had a one door garage that fit two cars, but their schedules meant that the car that went in first in the evening and went out first in the morning had to be started for a few minutes and moved every evening so that the other car could share the garage. Well the rear of the exhaust system literally fell off the car when it was about 2 year sold and I have no doubt it was from the constant on/off movement that was filling the pipes and muffler with water. From both these happenings I have learned to avoid starting a vehicle needlessly and to always try to get it up to operating temperature before shutting it off. I also drill a small hole in the lowest portion of my car mufflers if they don’t have one from the factory, so that the water can all drain out.

STORY FIVE: A friend I used to do bike repair for was dating a girl whose father worked for Esso as an engineer in the lubrication R&D department. They got to talking one day and the father told him that Shell Oil is has by far the most advanced products in the industry. This tells me Shell likely knows a lot more about oil that any of us do.

And finally, in no particular order:
- I change my oil every 3,000 miles if I use the vehicle in the city
- I change my oil between 5,000 and 7,000 if I am on the highway all the time (and it looks clean)
- Oil that has to also deal with a transmission and more importantly a clutch should be changed more often. I try to do it at 1,000 to 1,500 miles on my bikes.
- I use magnetic drain plugs whenever possible. Aside from collecting crap these can tell you about problems before your crankcase has a window in it. If you don’t have one, then at least let the oil drain from your filter and pull the paper out to look for metallic particles
- I use a name brand oil filter, like Motorcraft, Purolator or Fram as I once found (I still have the freaking thing here somewhere and don’t want to say the brand name without confirming it) metal chips in a cheap, spin-on bike filter. There are many other brands and there are different methods of assembly that some say are better than others. Regardless of which is best I’ve never had one fail.
- The frequency of your oil changes has far more effect on your engine, than the brand you use
- Oil has not changed since Henry Ford was buying it in bulk, only the additives have
- The base product of conventional motor oil is an unwanted by-product of the petroleum industry. That is why it does not fluctuate in value like gas does when prices change. Basically all our favorite name brand oils are given away to whoever wants to pick them up and then they are “formulated” using standard and proprietary additives to become the brands we then argue over. Motor oil, like bottled water, is all about marketing something that would be almost free if it were not for the constantly changing API standards and their investment in advertizing.
- Modern fuel efficient engines use a harder material for the piston rings that in the past. This provides less friction which enhances mileage, but it also means they take a lot longer to break in that say a drag race oriented ring which is much softer and will not last very long. These harder rings will not wear in properly with synthetic oil, so use conventional oil for your break-in.
- If you have an engine that is leaking oil, don’t switch to synthetic oil as it will worsen most types of leaks.
- Bike and car companies don’t make oil. They pay oil companies to put oil in private label cans and may even ask for a slight variation to the additives, but aside from the companies involved in F1 level racing, I’m not sure how they would determine what is better than what is currently on tap at say Shell. I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy Yamalube, or Hog Oil if it gives you a sense of security about something you are not sure of. I have no doubt they are excellent oils, I just prefer to pay less for what I am ASSUMING is equal to these products.
- I do not believe in “motorcycle oils” Do your research and you’ll find that even the main players in this indu$$$try refuse to discuss their claims with those who wish to know what the difference is.
- Race oil is for racing. Nothing else. It may have great lubrication properties, but it is not formulated to deal with the water, acids and long term use that standard oils are. Unfortunately it makes up about 95% of what you can find in Mexico as it is cheaper that “real life” oil and everyone down here thinks it the sh*t because it says ‘Racing” on the jug, so it must be good.
- I don’t doubt that certain synthetic oils may not be compatible with certain clutches and exotic metals. Read your manual and if it tells you not to use a certain type of oil, or additive, then odds are you should avoid it. However, when the manual says I must use Ford, or Yamaha oil or engine damage may occur I get a little skeptical.
- Oil in a car at -40 deg is like tar. It can’t pass through the pick-up screen and will not pass through a filter until it get warm, and being that heat rises, that can take a while. Unless you are running a synthetic 0W5 Artic blend oil your engine is spinning on whatever got left on the surfaces the last time you shut it of. This SUCKS! Thank God a lot of oil gets left on the surfaces. Aside from parking it indoors and using a circulating water block heater there is not much you can do. Oil pan heaters are not recommended (if you plan to keep your car a long time) as the heated oil releases the trapped acids that are not vented when the engine is off, or picked back up by the oil which is sitting in the pan.
- In terms of mileage I’m told a Taxi engine typically outlast the family car engine by 3X. This is likely because they are almost never started cold and they get regular oil changes. Suspension is another story, I’m not recommending anyone buy one.

That’s about all I’ve concluded about oil in my life. Is it all true? Don’t know, can’t say, but I’d rather be riding than researching, so if you doubt what I’ve said get on the Internet and read, there are thousands of articles written by people who are a lot smarter than me, or anyone else on this site. I’ve yet to see a catastrophic engine failure that was directly attributed to a brand, or type of oil, so whatever you have in your cases, keep it clean, topped up and filtered and you’ll likely never have a problem.

[El Camexican]

So from what little I've heard about Royal Purple I'm gathering it's not only over priced but some people are having issues with their rides after they use it. I guess I will stick to old reliable. Honda GN4.

My friend who swears by R.P. it is a certified diesel mechanic. He tells a story from the early 90’s of a CBR 600 that was freshened up and filled conventional oil and left to run with no load at 10,000RPM for 250 hours, disassembled and checked for wear. All the moving parts showed reasonable wear, but there were no failures. The engine was rebuilt and same test was repeated with Royal Purple and the story goes that there was no sign of wear. Legend has it that the guy who did this test owns D&D in Texas. I don’t particularly like telling someone elses story as I’m sure I’ve gotten something wrong, so if anyone out there knows him and can get him to weigh in and confirm, or dispute this story that would be awesome.

[The Goat]

I have no basis for my dislike of royal purple besides spikes in heat. A digital thermometer noting over 15 degrees different in heat is enough to discourage me. Cycle Max isn't for me.

As for redline and royal purple in a rincon... Run it and you will have issues shifting. Others also do it, but none as consistently as those two types.

You can argue and bicker amongst yourselves all you want. My motors run best with these oils.

Try em, you might like them just as much as I do.

[Mr_RPM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M&feature=related

THIS VIDEO EXPLAINS IT ALL!!!!


Im with The Goat on this, I spend most my time nerding out on BobIsTheOilGuy.com reading about oils all day. LOL

I run Mobil 1 turbo diesel truck (or rotella t6) oil in my jeep wrangler, thats the first hint of being oil obsessed. lol

then theres oil filters......
oil additives, fuel additives....


for some reason im obessed about things thats marginally matter LOL

[Dirtcrasher]

Let me ask this, and I include my friend, Fabio.......

Does anyone see anything so bad about Golden Spectro?? Bel-ray, Motul, Klotz and a few others just about drove it off the shelves and away from sales.

I ran that stuff since i was 16 yrs old (25 yrs now fella's) Anyone find it "inferior"??

Ohg, forgot to add that I never seized an engine or lost a crank and beat the snot out of everything I ride; my friends would agree!

Just wondering :D

[dcreel]

Let me ask this, and I include my friend, Fabio.......

Does anyone see anything so bad about Golden Spectro?? Bel-ray, Motul, Klotz and a few others just about drove it off the shelves and away from sales.

I ran that stuff since i was 16 yrs old (25 yrs now fella's) Anyone find it "inferior"??

Ohg, forgot to add that I never seized an engine or lost a crank and beat the snot out of everything I ride; my friends would agree!

Just wondering :D

So are you saying I should throw away all of my Maxima Super-M, and start using Golden Spectro? Just curious because I've been running Maxima Super-M for 25 years on the same bore.. It's hard to believe, but true. Maybe you should give Maxima Super-M a try... lol

[fabiodriven]

That's not what he's saying Doug. I think he's just pointing out that Golden Spectro is a good oil.

I still use Spectro. You can't beat it for the price. I prefer Synthetics, but I am not faithful to any particular brand. Golden Spectro is the only non-synthetic that I use though. Most people are obsessed with their oil and their ratio. I mix and match oils and very rarely do I measure my mixture. I just toss some oil in, toss in a dab more maybe, and shake 'er up. Never had any issues. My feeling is people get a bit obsessed with ratios, but to each their own.

[El Camexican]

Let me ask this, and I include my friend, Fabio.......

Does anyone see anything so bad about Golden Spectro?? Bel-ray, Motul, Klotz and a few others just about drove it off the shelves and away from sales.

I ran that stuff since i was 16 yrs old (25 yrs now fella's) Anyone find it "inferior"??

Ohg, forgot to add that I never seized an engine or lost a crank and beat the snot out of everything I ride; my friends would agree!

Just wondering :D

I've used Golden Spectro, Motul, PJ1 and Esso in my two strokes, as well as Bel-Ray, 10W40 and ATF in my transmissions. I have nothing bad to say about any of them. Almost all the MX racers back home ran Golden Spectro.

I Run PJ1 in my 2 strokes now simply beacuse it seems to be easier to find and also because the Motul (one of the few available here in Mexico) is running almost $30.00 a liter and I've read that it works best in a hot running, high reving engine, just the opposite of my KTM 300 with its easily gumed up power valve. I still have a few jugs, so they may end up in my Tri-Z. I'm sure Klotz & Bel-Ray are fine too.

After some clutch burning issues in my RZ500 which was treated to Bel-Ray in the trans at all times, a guy at Barnett recommended I try automatic transmission fluid in my 2 stroke transmissions. Problem solved and as far as I know no damage done to anything else. It makes sense as all the componants in an car transmission exist in a bike trans. Bearings, gears, seals and clutch plates and they run at a higher temp and under more load, so why not? I've even heard some modern standard transmission cars and trucks come with ATF from the factory. I'm not telling anyone to do it, I'm just saying that I do it and it seems to work.

What I'd like to see from someone bashing any particular oil is a photo and belivable explanation showing how it caused a problem in an application it was meant for.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

I've used Golden Spectro, Motul, PJ1 and Esso in my two strokes, as well as Bel-Ray, 10W40 and ATF in my transmissions. I have nothing bad to say about any of them. Almost all the MX racers back home ran Golden Spectro.

I Run PJ1 in my 2 strokes now simply beacuse it seems to be easier to find and also because the Motul (one of the few available here in Mexico) is running almost $30.00 a liter and I've read that it works best in a hot running, high reving engine, just the opposite of my KTM 300 with its easily gumed up power valve. I still have a few jugs, so they may end up in my Tri-Z. I'm sure Klotz & Bel-Ray are fine too.

After some clutch burning issues in my RZ500 which was treated to Bel-Ray in the trans at all times, a guy at Barnett recommended I try automatic transmission fluid in my 2 stroke transmissions. Problem solved and as far as I know no damage done to anything else. It makes sense as all the componants in an car transmission exist in a bike trans. Bearings, gears, seals and clutch plates and they run at a higher temp and under more load, so why not? I've even heard some modern standard transmission cars and trucks come with ATF from the factory. I'm not telling anyone to do it, I'm just saying that I do it and it seems to work.

What I'd like to see from someone bashing any particular oil is a photo and belivable explanation showing how it caused a problem in an application it was meant for.

Thats a darned good point sir! How many engine failures can be incontrovertibly attributed to oil brand?? I doubt very many. Lack of maintenance and/or wrong type (as opposed to brand) I believe has more to do with failures of that nature.

[El Camexican]

I just toss some oil in, toss in a dab more maybe, and shake 'er up. Never had any issues.

That comment reminded me when all I had for transportation was 2 stroke street bikes. When I had to buy gas I would have to buy a liter of oil at the gas station to mix in. All measurments were by eye and all mixing was done by rocking the bike between my knees. If there was less than a 1/4 liter more than was needed it would go in the tank. Whenever I had 1/2 jugs left over that I couldn't bear to toss out, I would hide them in near by parks or alleys for later use. Sometimes if there was a service station attached the mechanics would let us store them on a shelf. There were times when I had a half dozen jugs of half opened 2 stroke oil stashed around the city. In hindsight I really should have just asked the girlfriend to buy a bigger purse to store the oil in...

[El Camexican]

Thats a darned good point sir! How many engine failures can be incontrovertibly attributed to oil brand?? I doubt very many. Lack of maintenance and/or wrong type (as opposed to brand) I believe has more to do with failures of that nature.

Roger that Red Rider

[Grindin' Gearz]

Ok, on a side note, maybe Mr. Fabio can help here, I'm currently running conventional oil in my trike, I think that's all its had all its life, would it be wise to switch to a synthetic? If so, what steps would be needed to swap? I.e. flushes etc.

[Dirtcrasher]

That's not what he's saying Doug. I think he's just pointing out that Golden Spectro is a good oil.

I still use Spectro. You can't beat it for the price. I prefer Synthetics, but I am not faithful to any particular brand. Golden Spectro is the only non-synthetic that I use though. Most people are obsessed with their oil and their ratio. I mix and match oils and very rarely do I measure my mixture. I just toss some oil in, toss in a dab more maybe, and shake 'er up. Never had any issues. My feeling is people get a bit obsessed with ratios, but to each their own.

Thank you John, Thats what I meant or was implying.

Too many people seem to think the oils made years ago just shouldn't be used and Spectro has been with me my whole life. I don't own a smoker, but I wouldn't hesitate to toss Spectro in one even though I used it as a 12yo kid....... :lol:

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Ok, on a side note, maybe Mr. Fabio can help here, I'm currently running conventional oil in my trike, I think that's all its had all its life, would it be wise to switch to a synthetic? If so, what steps would be needed to swap? I.e. flushes etc.

There are different schools of thought on this. But I see no issue with switching from mineral to synthetic or vice-verse. Heck, if the 2 werent really compatible, why would the oil manufacturers offer synthetic/mineral blends? Just dont mix different viscosity/weights.

[sweetip2000]

That's what I use. And I add some of that marvel mystery oil. Really good stuff.
I add it to the gas too.

[The Goat]

I would not swap to syn in an older motor. I've had two motors personally start leaking after going to a syn from conventional a little too late in their lives. I couldn't be convinced to go to syn now if the motor has more than 200 hours on it. Which for an atv is usually 4k miles or sO.

Cutting filters open after switching to syn shows all kinds of crud that was stationary and getting flushed out. It really does seem to clean your motor.

[fabiodriven]

Ok, on a side note, maybe Mr. Fabio can help here, I'm currently running conventional oil in my trike, I think that's all its had all its life, would it be wise to switch to a synthetic? If so, what steps would be needed to swap? I.e. flushes etc.

I am by no means the authority here, but I would just drain the old oil and re-fill with synthetic. As a matter of fact, I just did that last week with my SX. Drained the old cruddy oil, and replaced it with a fully synthetic. I'd be willing to bet it will be just fine.

[El Camexican]

I am by no means the authority here
Oh, come on now Fab, your thumbnail with the all knowing finger of authority pointed towards the unenlightened masses says otherwise, don't be shy! Those who seek knowledge are drawn to it like moths to light, do not shirk your destiny and leave them fluttering aimlessly without purpose once they have arrived to it.:beer

[RID3R]

And the name calling begins. It just reeks of desperation...

Since when did you become the be-all end-all on what's relevant and what's not Rid3r? You disappear for two plus years and show up on here with your chest puffed out like you know what's going on, pointing fingers at everybody else and how much we irritate you. You've always given me a hard time since day one. What you don't know is that during the time you've been gone the very same people that used to give me infractions and ban me have become friends of mine. I've participated in the community by doing favors for other people, done business with others (even you at one point I think), and I even went to Trikefest this year. Drove 16 hours each way to get there and I'll be going back next year as well.

You're accusing the Mexican-Canuck of picking fights with other people. All I'm going to say is those that live in glass houses.....

I happen to think El-Camexican is making some very valid points. Now I like both The Goat, the Canuck, and yourself equally (even though you don't like me, but that's OK), but the Canuck is actively participating in this thread with his questions and his points. He may come across as snide (Like some other guys I know) and he is most certainly witty, but in the end he has a point to make and questions regarding the OP's "facts".

Seems to me you picked a fight with somebody who may have showed up a little better equipped than yourself, so stand down as you were. :)

No hard feelings to anybody.

I guess that would be me with the name calling and being desperate. Sorry but I think your a little confused. Desperate would be given a little taste of your own medicine (giving someone a hard time) and then resort to mentioning how you have done this and done that and immature assumptions that anyone rides the public transportation bus, which I don't... I don't care what anyone says, that is pathetic. This is why i'm standing down, I don't need to lower myself to his level. The only truth he did have was me parting out a Tecate. My whole point was, if you don't like something, say what you have to say and move on. No need to influence anyone else and turn a thread into a clown meeting. I used El's Psuedo KTM somewhat as an example. I never went into his thread cracking jokes and giving him a hard time no matter how stupid I thought it was. He was fishing for something in this thread and in my opinion it is wanting to run with the forefront of this forum. If he thought it was complete BS he could has said so and continued onto a positive note of giving any opinions he did have on oil. We all know different oils can affect performance. With all his experience he could of shared some, and I would of thanked him for it.

Now Fabio, I have not always given you problems. I'm sure you think I am taking shots at you here, but im not. Regardless of your attitude at times you manage to keep some respect. I've come to believe that's just who and how you are, though I wont hesitate to call you out. I think you can handle it... These other guys are another thing.. and if you think for a second this is you, it probably is.

As much as we all visit this forum you catch on to a lot, i'm just being honest here. I would be nice if others were and didn't try to impress everyone. Guess guys can be shallow too. Thats how I see it....

P.S - PM's are awesome, I should of given Fabio one. This thread made a turn for the better.

[El Camexican]

I guess that would be me with the name calling and being desperate. Sorry but I think your a little confused. Desperate would be given a little taste of your own medicine (giving someone a hard time) and then resort to mentioning how you have done this and done that and immature assumptions that anyone rides the public transportation bus, which I don't... I don't care what anyone says, that is pathetic. This is why i'm standing down, I don't need to lower myself to his level. The only truth he did have was me parting out a Tecate. My whole point was, if you don't like something, say what you have to say and move on. No need to influence anyone else and turn a thread into a clown meeting. I used El's Psuedo KTM somewhat as an example. I never went into his thread cracking jokes and giving him a hard time no matter how stupid I thought it was. He was fishing for something in this thread and in my opinion it is wanting to run with the forefront of this forum. If he thought it was complete BS he could has said so and continued onto a positive note of giving any opinions he did have on oil. We all know different oils can affect performance. With all his experience he could of shared some, and I would of thanked him for it.

Now Fabio, I have not always given you problems. I'm sure you think I am taking shots at you here, but im not. Regardless of your attitude at times you mange to keep some respect. I've come to believe that's just who and how you are, though I wont hesitate to call you out. I think you can handle it... These other guys are another thing.. and if you think for a second this is you, it probably is.

As much as we all visit this forum you catch on to a lot, i'm just being honest here. I would be nice if others were and didn't try to impress everyone. Guess guys can be shallow too. Thats how I see it....

You may not have noticed, but we've all moved on, you should too.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

C'mon Rid3r! It looked like this thread was finally getting back to its original intent! Why did you have to reignite the fire????? :wondering

Cripes all friday man, you are taking more issue with El Camexican and Fab than Goat! Let it go already.

I think most of us adults can weed through the sarcasm, (be it in good fun or otherwise) without you jumping in to make sure we all see it.......

[The Goat]

Fabio I ignore because it's easier than trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro with people on the Internet.

The new kid isn't worth belittling until he does something dumb enough to be banned.

As said before, take it or leave it.

As far as trans fluid in the case goes, better protection but a little drag. Most would never notice it, but it definitely is there. We always recommended it for the 450s but not the 250s. Seeing as how no one taking the advise of a parts guy is riding that 450 to it's potential, better protection was all they needed to hear for the extra 7 bucks a quart.

[Chazz of Blades]

..................................Castrol GTX.




That is all.

[RID3R]

I replied to the first post I seen - I try not to touch computers on the weekend. I really didnt expect it to take a turn so continue on... Ill apologize for this.

Been a while since I filled any ATV, but I always found myself using Bel-Ray or Klotz.

[Just-Tri-It]

Very simple for me...

2 stroke powervalve apps-- 40:1 Yamalube 2R with quality lead fuel. I NEVER rely on Garbage pump gas for anything


I don't think we can get leaded fuel in this area. Does leaded fuel make that big of a difference? What other options if it can't be found. This would be for the Tri-z that I'm speaking about or any 2 stroke.

[MonroeMike]

Check here.http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TN

[Just-Tri-It]

Check here.http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TN

These station carry ethanol free gas but I'm not sure if it has lead. I call one or two and they are free of ethanol but are Unleaded also,
Thanks

[MonroeMike]

My mistake.

[El Camexican]

I don't think we can get leaded fuel in this area. Does leaded fuel make that big of a difference? What other options if it can't be found. This would be for the Tri-z that I'm speaking about or any 2 stroke.

There is no where in North American where you can buy leaded fuel for highway use anymore. In fact I belive it would be a criminal offence to be caught using it on the street in most juristrictions. Years back there were still aviation fuels with small amounts of lead in them, but I think they are gone now too. That leaves only leaded "race fuel" from companies like VP, etc. If your engine detonates under load with pump gas, then leaded gas will make all the difference in the world. I have almost no experience using leaded fuel in 2 strokes, but I've read it makes a lot of difference in a high-perf engine. Being that my experiance is with 4 strokes I can tell you that you can still build a potent 4 stroke engine that runs on pump gas, but you will have to deal with lower compresion, either by using smaller domed pistions, or cams that "bleed off" compression, less advanced timing, etc. If you want the absolute max power out of an engine you will end up using leaded fuel. I'll add that aviation fuel should not be used in a variable RPM engine even if you do find some millitary grade fuel that still has lead as it does not have the burn properties our engines require. And finaly if you do end up using leaded race fuel, treat it like you were handling poison as it is extreamly toxic and will pass right through your skin and into your blood stream if you get it on your hands. When not in use you should store it in metal containers and drain your float bowls if you are not going to use the vehical for more that a week as it not only attracts moisture from the air, but it leaves a disgusting residue in your bowl and jets. Over time, say 6 months, if expossed to air it will will turn to a yellow jello in the carb and eventualy a green crystal moss that you will spend a lot of time cleaning up.