81' ATC 185s burning oil and smoking.... HELP!

[ben.simons]

i have two 81' 185s' and one is running but burning oil fast and smoking. does anyone know what the problem might be? i like to ride, but dont know much about small engines... PLEASE HELP! also....... the other 185s i have has a worn down cam and the cam guide also has some grooves in it. it had low compression and the guy i bought it from had it in the shop twice. after some trial and error still no fix. but i took the head off and saw the cam was worn down and the guides have grooves, so does anyone know if that means i need a new head or what???

[yamaha driver]

well the smoker problem is problay bad piston rings or valve guides... did you ever drive it before this or did it sit for along time..... sometimes if you just drive them for a bit the smoking will go way down or mabey even go away and :welcome: to 3WW

[Headsup]

Low compression, Burning oil, Smoking.. Sounds like u need a new piston and rings.. Oil is getting past them and burning causing it to smoke

[kylegrimes]

Clasic signs of a wore out piston and rings

[ben.simons]

Easy job to swap pistons? I have another of the same with all good parts but the cam and cam guide. Can I just take the piston out of the other and bolt back together?? And what steps does that entail??

[rdlsz24]

It's not too hard if you've messed with engines before. The manual will walk you through step by step. Right-click, save target as: http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/Honda_ATC185s_200_Service_Manual.pdf

Rob

[El Camexican]

Get a manual, pull the engine, tear it down and rebuild it right. You'll be glad you did.

[ben.simons]

thanks for the info! long live RED CYCLES!

[bigworm626]

ja-bonie brotha!

[ben.simons]

yeah good idea. but isnt that really spendy?? the other motor has lots of new parts, but the cam and guide where he cam sits are worn down, but the piston looks flawless and has new rings on it, and i also have a top-end gasket kit. what other things would have to be done besides the piston and rings in order to do it right? and sorry so many questions.... just new to the world of 3wheels!

[ben.simons]

when i bought it it didnt smoke, and i got it home, changed and flushed old oil out, and the next time i got on it it started smoking and burnt up all the oil in about 4 hours and got so hot the dip stick started to melt! still runs after getting so hot so i dont think the heat messed anything up.

[ben.simons]

cant get the link to work for some reason....

[ben.simons]

and what web sites do you guys use to buy atc parts?

[WilliamJ]

when i bought it it didnt smoke, and i got it home, changed and flushed old oil out, and the next time i got on it it started smoking and burnt up all the oil in about 4 hours and got so hot the dip stick started to melt! still runs after getting so hot so i dont think the heat messed anything up.

Ben I have to agree with El Camexican.
If it's burning oil it is going past the piston rings or down the valve guides - probably both. You might be able to swap bits from one engine to another but it does sound like both engines have issues. If it turns out one has a good bottom end / piston and the other has a good head, valves and cam then you may be able to make a good motor out of the bits.

My guess is you will pull the cylinder off and the bore and piston will be scuffed badly. When you pull the head take off the valve springs and pull the valves out a few millimetres and wiggle them to see how much play there is. If you can see the play the guides and probably valves are worn. I wouldn't try swapping just the piston - cylinder and piston as a set is okay.

This stuff can be done by a novice but you need someone to help you with inspection and the machining jobs. If you don't you will end up re-using worn out parts and all your effort will be for nothing.
When you decide to get a new piston take the jug to a proper machine shop you can trust and get it measured or you may buy the wrong piston. Then buy the size they tell you and get them to bore it.

Ask the machine shop to measure and inspect your valve stems. Get some new guides (and valves if they say they're worn) and get the machine shop to fit the guides. While you are at it ask them to inspect the cam and the rockers. You might as well get them to check the connecting rod for big and little end play. The timing chain may need replacing too.

If you run a very oily mixture it can make the engine run hot - it is similar to using fuel with too low an octane rating and the engine does not like it. If you run it hard you can hole the piston.

Bill

[El Camexican]

when i bought it it didnt smoke, and i got it home, changed and flushed old oil out, and the next time i got on it it started smoking and burnt up all the oil in about 4 hours and got so hot the dip stick started to melt! still runs after getting so hot so i dont think the heat messed anything up.

Flushed it out with what??? Melting dip stick??? You did something I promise not to laugh at:wondering, now just tell us the truth and we'll try to help you.

[ben.simons]

flushed meaning i filled it up with new oil, ran it for a few minutes and drained it again to get some trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out. i filled it up again with the 10w-40 i was told to put in, went out to my hunting land to check deer stands and between 3-4 hours later i was out of oil and still had a mile left to ride. when i got to my truck it was hot and i went to check the oil and the dipstick was melted and almost ready to drip plastic into the motor. i just dont understand because when i got it a day earlier it ran fine, didnt smoke or over heat...

[ben.simons]

thanks for the info Bill. so im looking at alot of money huh?? would i be better off finding a good running used motor or a whole new better atc???

[El Camexican]

flushed meaning i filled it up with new oil, ran it for a few minutes and drained it again to get some trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro out. i filled it up again with the 10w-40 i was told to put in, went out to my hunting land to check deer stands and between 3-4 hours later i was out of oil and still had a mile left to ride. when i got to my truck it was hot and i went to check the oil and the dipstick was melted and almost ready to drip plastic into the motor. i just dont understand because when i got it a day earlier it ran fine, didnt smoke or over heat...

Sounds like all your oil leaked:wondering out and you cooked your valve seals (your rings and cams are likley toast as well). It would explain the heat as well. Have you checked to see if your drain plug, or filter cover are still in place? I suspect you have a silver boat anchor in your frame. Sorry:cry:

[Lil Earl]

Ben I have to agree with El Camexican.
If it's burning oil it is going past the piston rings or down the valve guides - probably both. You might be able to swap bits from one engine to another but it does sound like both engines have issues. If it turns out one has a good bottom end / piston and the other has a good head, valves and cam then you may be able to make a good motor out of the bits.

My guess is you will pull the cylinder off and the bore and piston will be scuffed badly. When you pull the head take off the valve springs and pull the valves out a few millimetres and wiggle them to see how much play there is. If you can see the play the guides and probably valves are worn. I wouldn't try swapping just the piston - cylinder and piston as a set is okay.

This stuff can be done by a novice but you need someone to help you with inspection and the machining jobs. If you don't you will end up re-using worn out parts and all your effort will be for nothing.
When you decide to get a new piston take the jug to a proper machine shop you can trust and get it measured or you may buy the wrong piston. Then buy the size they tell you and get them to bore it.

Ask the machine shop to measure and inspect your valve stems. Get some new guides (and valves if they say they're worn) and get the machine shop to fit the guides. While you are at it ask them to inspect the cam and the rockers. You might as well get them to check the connecting rod for big and little end play. The timing chain may need replacing too.

If you run a very oily mixture it can make the engine run hot - it is similar to using fuel with too low an octane rating and the engine does not like it. If you run it hard you can hole the piston.

Bill
and the price for that would be?...

[ben.simons]

i thought it was leaking also, checked my drain plug and it was good. the tail pipe had lots of oil build up on the tip and so did the hitch bracket... my buddy riding behind me said it was smoking the whole ride and is an auto mechanic and said it smelled like burning oil.. after i filled it back up with oil it ran fine again just like it did before it over heated.... but was still smoking....

[El Camexican]

and the price for that would be?...

You can only guess until you get in there and see what is still good. Could be $300, could be $1,200. No telling till you get the bill.

[El Camexican]

i thought it was leaking also, checked my drain plug and it was good. the tail pipe had lots of oil build up on the tip and so did the hitch bracket... my buddy riding behind me said it was smoking the whole ride and is an auto mechanic and said it smelled like burning oil.. after i filled it back up with oil it ran fine again just like it did before it over heated.... but was still smoking....

Well one thing is for certain and that is that you can't fix this by turning a screw on the carb, or adjusting the cam chain. If it was me the thing would already be down to the nuts on a bench, but if you want to try and see if you can salvage it for as little $$ as possible start by getting that manual and pulling the top end off it. At that point you'll know why it is blowing out oil and you'll also have a pretty good idea if its worth rebuilding. For what you need it for you may just want to pick up a YTM 200 or something else that is as reliable as a rock and put that 185 on ebay as is. Up to you, but one way or another you'll be spending more money before you have a reliable ride.