81 atc 200 (no spark)

[Manns50]

Hello new to the site....tried searching threads for a similar question or post with no luck. Have an 81 atc 200 that i just bought has been setting out for a year or so possibly not sure but just checking for spark with the plug grounded against the engine jug....not seeing spark. Started checking wires found one of the 3 wires broken coming up from the (magneto?...down by the crank) Sorry for being vague but cars are more my suit not well versed on atv's.
Anyway reconnected the gray sheathed wire...still no spark just wondering if someone could point me in the right direction as far as what to check first or should I just start backing up from the coil and keep testing? found a manual for an 84 not sure if it would be the same as far as specs on the ignition system. Any help greatly appreciated.

[MonroeMike]

Here's the correct manual, check section 14.
http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/honda/Honda_ATC185s_200_Service_Manual.pdf

[muthey]

I'll make you a nice long post tomorrow on what I had to do to get spark on my 81, and hopefully something I tell you will help yours

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Manns50, welcome to our site! Atc's are pretty much just like cars, only the components are a little different, but for the most part function the same way. I think you got the right Idea by startin at the ignition coil and going backwards.
Now I'm gonna ask you something, but don't take it as an insult. Have you changed the sparkplug? FYI In my eyes NGK is the only way to go with atcs/atvs/motorcycles.
If you have any questions at all dont hesitate to ask, we got some real top notch troubleshooters here,

Again:welcome:

[Manns50]

Thank you for the link I will download that I'm sure that will help immensely. And ya it was a new NGK plug. I had rebuilt the carb put a new fuel filter inline and had painted the tank and was reinstalling it and suddenly hit me I should check for spark before putting the tank on so I did and that's what led me down this road. Thanks again to everyone looks like this will be a great site! Quick helpful replies....I appreciate it. Looking forward to working on it after work today.

[muthey]

ok this could get kinda long, but when I bought my 81 200, it didn't spark either, my situation will probably differ from yours mine had the wrong kill switch on it and that was the whole problem, now what you can do is take the cover on the side of the motor that has C.D.I. off and clean the red dust out of it. You can unscrew your spark plug cap from the wire and cut 1/4 inch off and put it back together, also check your wiring to make sure there is no improper ground as the manual states where they should all be.if you put an ohm tester to the stator wires coming out of the motor you should get voltage when you pull the pull starter, I don't remember which wires off hand. might need to get your hands on a new cdi which is not behind that cover but a little rectangular box that is mounted under your gas tank. but before all that turn your kill switch to off and see if it was wired backwards like mine was lol yes I know how stupid can they be but it happens, I was tearing my motor down and decided to pull it one last time and that was all it was, the kill switch was backwards. Simple fact if you are getting voltage out of the motor, then you are looking at cdi or kill switch issues, run through all the wiring with a fine tooth comb and check the fuse as well should be on the passenger or driver side under the seat area replace it even if it looks good, never know.

[Manns50]

Muthey,thanks for the advice and suggestions. Gonna go tinker with it now and see what I can come up with. Again really impressed by the replies to help...great site!

[Manns50]

Well was doing some diagnostic checks on a few things per the manual and one of the obvious things was the coil....I was getting 0.2-0.8 ohms from the primary side as it recommended but nothing from the secondary side. Not sure how this particular coil works but would that be the culprit?
When checking the stator or "A.C. generator" as the manual put it....I didnt get the ohms off any of the wires as it specified. The wire colors it is mentioning is not what colors I have for one thing so I'm kinda lost there. I have a white green and black sheathed wire coming from the stator. One was broken that I reconnected and attempts to cut sheathing a little to verify color didnt help....seems sheathing is the color. I did get 1.1 ohms off of 2 of the wires.. the other combinations resulted nothing. As far as A/C voltage I got around 7 volts when pulling the rope.
The CDI box I did not understand the chart it showed for diagnosing it. There was no numbers showing in the table/graph that it showed as there were in the 1984 manual I read... just the sideways figure 8 symbol if someone knows what this means? my volt meter is kinda basic as well and it does specify a special meter to test. But if I remember right the ohms on the pulse gen was within guidelines.

[MonroeMike]

The CDI chart on page 84 of this thread any better?
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?126290-ATC185-200-Service-Data

[Manns50]

I couldnt load that page from that link it only went to section 25 unless I was doing something wrong

[MonroeMike]

Look here.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5466903115_7b55c353ac_b.jpg

[Manns50]

Thanks MonroeMike that page was helpful that manual was more descriptive.I still wasnt able to get any readings from my cdi box I dont think my volt meter is up to it...or the box is just smoked one of the two. but i read another test about the coil that was helpful. Realized my coil was good and I did fine the spark plug wire wasnt getting a good connection.Will try to plug everything back up tomorrow after work see if I have spark. May have been the whole problem! What manual was that page from would like to download if possible?

[Manns50]

If anyone could check or know what type of voltage they are getting from their stator while just pulling the rope would be helpful. Think I was only seeing 7 volts.

[MonroeMike]

What manual was that page from would like to download if possible?
Same as post 9.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?126290-ATC185-200-Service-Data

[Manns50]

Can the pulse gen wires be switched without problems? Forgot to look when I unplugged them.
Believe Im gonna just order a cdi box and see if thats the problem....not being able to test it

[muthey]

if I am not mistaken they are color coded so it would be really had to mistake them, have you checked out the kill switch thoroughly? Also make sure you are not grounding out to the cdi

[Manns50]

Ok Ill double check those things and make sure the colors are matched if possible on the pulse wires. Have a cdi box purchased waiting on it to get here. Thank you for your input.

[muthey]

no problem, I do recommend thinking about changing the rear hubs to an 84 200s hubs and the front forks and hub to a 200s style as well I find that the 200s handles better than the 81 200 with the 25" tires With the 200s setup you can go down to 22" tires, 25's are more common, but 22's in my opinion handle better.

[Manns50]

Ya I was wondering what would cross reference as far as upgraded parts...I will look into doing that. I had been eyeing the shock assisted forks but wasn't sure what years would fit. Also would be helpful to know what years of seat will fit...the pan under mine has some rust am needing a different one to cover

[muthey]

Here is where you can get a new seat pan http://www.atcheaven.com/Seats.php?pageNum_Sea=1&totalRows_Sea=36, I was lucky enough to get a almost brand new one from my dealer for free out of his junk pile but this guy sells from what I've heard good remakes. Also with some of the plastics the other big red models out there the plastics will match up with slight modification.

[Manns50]

Wow big thanks man def the route Ill go!

[Manns50]

Ok an update...have not had a whole lot of time to work on it but have switched the cdi box from a good running 83 200 with no luck. Started taking stuff apart to remove the stator and remembered I read somewhere to check voltage from the blk/red wire and to ground the other lead...which resulted in 26 or better volts when pulling the rope...so assuming the stator is good? Before I was taking voltage from 2 of the leads in the stator plug instead of grounding one lead and was only seeing 7 volts.
I have the coil off and have checked for voltage to the coil (from the wiring harness) and am getting nothing. In the process of taking the headlight apart to check connections there. Any help is appreciated guys....am learning in the process about these things as stated more familiar with auto mechanics really

[muthey]

I have this sneaking feeling it is in your kill switch, was wear my spark problem was when I was repairing mine, might want to give that a look over

[tri again]

I have this sneaking feeling it is in your kill switch, was wear my spark problem was when I was repairing mine, might want to give that a look over

Funny, not so funny kill sw.
It has a dead ground to kill the engine and also has a ground to the cdi so it WILL run.
That's where the cdi gets it's ground TO run.

I went blind studying the wire diagrams and it also seems
they differ just enough from year to year to make you memorize them.

Some folks get so frustrated that they replace the entire harness, only to admit the old one was prob ok
and that simply by being forced to go thru EVERY connection, they now work.

framegroundsframegrounds.
I've rediscovered those star type lockwasher that really bite thru paint and rust.

[Manns50]

Ya Muthey I had read a few post about that so I took the kill switch housing apart and all looked ok had never been tampered with and I tested the switch terminals for continuity with the switched flipped off and got continuity and didn't when in the on position. A question that would help me a lot is should I see voltage at coil wire and how do I check for it? A/C volts I'm assuming but I just ground one lead to the frame and the other to the hot wire going to the coil right?
And drjoe171 that's my next move when I have time...maybe in the morning is to sand all the ground connections and try and test the wires for voltage following it from the stator to the cdi and out and working my way to the coil but if the cdi is not getting the signal to release voltage it wont so I have to keep that in mind. Thanks guys for your help really appreciate it!

[atc007]

The correct way to diagnose this machine is to OHM your stator. Volts don't matter cranking it. Your stator makes your spark dependant on static ohms. With the machine at rest ,not being pulled over. You have undoubtedly found your machine does not have fuses. Having said that. One of my old mechanics,,A Ford guy.. Could diagnose these right down the line,,every time,,INcluding cdi's With a test light! Time after time,, Anyhow,,I don't have these stats memorized any more,,and a quick Google search found me nothing?? This stuff was getting easier to find,,Electrosport used to have the ohms readings. Now it seems harder to find. Usually Monroemike will put you down the right trail,? You need stator ohms resistance readings. If you aren't fixed up next week ,I'll be back on,,I have manuals somewhere ,And I'll try to find what you need. My best guess is,,If you pull your flywheel,it's rusty,,Clean up your stator really good,along with your flywheel,and you will probably have spark. If that's the case,,you will be needing new coils sooner than later. Good luck!

[muthey]

ok then you have the kill switch with lights on it as well mine had a different kill witch on it that had no connection for lights, and when I changed it to a later model switch it was all fixed, had to do a wiring change as well as the colors didn't match, and the lights were always on with the switch mine came with. but I do agree with dr joe and 007 definitely check your ohms and all of your connections, I thought there were ohm readings were in the repair manuals for the cdi, and stator

[Manns50]

Ok thanks guys I just assumed we were going after voltage ultimately....the ohm readings just being a way to test so the voltage would be right. But I believe what your saying because the manual shows testing for ohms on all the ignition components. The manual was a little vague to me as the wire colors didnt exactly match what is on my trike unless Im looking at the sheath color. But when I tested for ohms I was not getting what was specified in the manual from the stator. Should the meter be on 200 2000 20k 200k or 2000k? I was thinking 200 as it is just moving the decimal point correct and were wanting to just match the scale of ohms we want to look at? Sorry for all the questions just used to chasing down wiring problems on a car via voltage not ohms or resistance.
Im gonna try and use a steering wheel puller on the flywheel tomorrow to remove it and get to the stator to see what it looks like. Does the stator coils off ebay work ok or should I look for a certain brand?

[atc007]

NO steering wheel puller! It takes a internal,left hand threaded very special puller! You CAn ,,VERy,VERY carefully,,,,TRY with at least one helper,,a cpl HUGE screwdrivers,or tire irons,,gently pulling up behind the flywheel,,being very careful of the magnets inside it,,while one of you smacks the crank with a hammer,with the nut ran on the crank threads just above flush.. ANY shop will have the right puller though. They can be bought for $12 or less,,I would just get one. If you have a 81 ATC 200,you need a manual for a 81 ATC 200,the wires will match unless someones been in there raising cane w a different harness or something.But getting a look in there in the meantime will prolly get you going due to rust. I'm off to hit the road and get my ALT 185!

[oscarmayer]

in my sig is a link to manuals downloads, but there is also a link to how to rebuild your ket switch i know yours is a kill but the principles still apply. you will have to disamble the kill, sand the connections and re-connect.

[Manns50]

Do I need to replace both of the stator coils or just primary? Going to pull flywheel tonight hopefully and I noticed I wasnt seeing the second coil for sale on ebay anywhere for an 81.

[zackwhite]

the black 1 is the 1 that runs the bike and other 1 is just for trailprotrailpro lights

[Manns50]

Great thank you

[Manns50]

Guess I'll take the connections loose and clean em....just wanted to see how bad they looked from someone with stator experience. Lol

[Manns50]

If someone could explain what Im checking resistance between.....to verify that the stator is good? I unscrewed both stator coils and sanded the mounting surface contact points and sprayed out housing with carb cleaner and reassembled and I'm still getting no resistance between any of the 3 wires coming out of the stator assembly. I even checked resistance between 'the soldered wire on the middle of primary stator coil" and the "contact point or ground where it is mounted and got no resistance. And I switched the meter selection to all of the ohm settings and got nothing, Someone care to explain this process?
Seems pretty basic to me as I'm understanding the process just dont want to assume its bad and replace it for no reason.

[zackwhite]

the black wire from that is the wire that runs the bike.so if u got the wire where it go and u still got no fire thne it might not be that

[Manns50]

Finally got around to working on this again...ordered a new stator took out the assembly and replaced the stator and after I soldered the blck red wire on the stator I checked for ohms between the 3 wires not getting anything unless one lead is on the housing of the stator. Is this correct? I have it out on the table have checked the 3 wires made sure they werent screped or touching but I'm seeing continuity between the black/red hot wire come from the stator and the housing assembly the stator is bolted to??? is this correct?

[Manns50]

I checked ohms on the new stator when I took it out of the box was seeing the 245 ohms that is specified. Actually checked the old one and was seiing close to this....makes me think it wasnt bad just a short somewhere

[Manns50]

Ended up being a broken wire just behind the dust connector of the 3 wire connector from the stator. Had reconnected a place it was broke when I first started on it.....but it was broke in another place I couldnt see till I decided to unwrap the harness! A 19 year old that had it briefly tried to use a butt connector to splice it then wrapped it back up....looked untouched

[muthey]

well hopefully when you get it put back together you will have spark now, and can get that puppy back on the trails

[Manns50]

Got it going and runs great finally! Bought it not running so I wasnt sure how it would sound or even ride but gears all shift good and it starts on the first pull after rebuilding the carb cleaning the tank out and taking this journey resurrecting spark. Going to change the oil and make sure the clutch,chain,brakes etc is adjusted correctly then look forward to taking it on some rides! Thanks to all that helped me very much appreciate it!

[oscarmayer]

how did she do?

[Manns50]

It does good the motor was rebuilt by a professional shop the guy told me 3-4 years before I got it and they had replaced the crank and did a complete overhaul. It doesnt smoke or anything has good power. I still have to adjust that mixture screw as its just the initial setting after I rebuilt the carb. How do you go about hooking a tach to it to get the idle at the correct rpm to adjust the carb?

[Manns50]

I just bought another one for my wife to ride I'm going to get tomorrow. I have to get it running and fix it up as well....Its and 86 125M all there but has been sitting for 3 years the guy said.