Cant get my 330 to run

[pantera1975]

I got my atc back with the 330 pv esr cylinder. First it would start at all just fire like every 10 kicks so swapped the cdi then it run from a old oem to a new ricks. It runs but acts rich. I dropped down to a 170 main and moved the clip from the 2nd richest to the middle. got a br9es in it trx 9 porting and a pwk 38mm it 85 deg here with 49% humidity and the dew point in about 68 (real muggy)and at 1200 ft elevation I just dont get it my bone stock motor with the 38 pwk ran fine I had another motor redone put it in and now it runs like crap. After I changed the jetting it dont Idle now its very hard to start from the begining The only way is to short kick it then it. It kicks back real bad. Im about dun havent rode all year cuz of waiting for parts and service I bummed now 3 weeks ago when I first tried to start it it messed up my ankle and leg. Today I tried to start it and now my ankle is screwed up again its never gotten better. I got new turbo blue 110 and 91 mixed 50-50 with klots r50 at 32-1. It does run better with the airbox lid off I noticed it just seems lean. THe shop I had it at aid the float level looks good it does leak out when I kick it 50 times to start it. Ive tried 2 diff coils too. Then now I just put in the stator from my other motor and its no diff other than All my lights stay at the same brightness but my vapor trail tech back light flickers which Its always done that with theat stator? WTF??? Is it really this had for everyone????Like I said It ran perfect with the other stock motor all I did was put in the new one and plug it in. Should I get new fuel. How the hell do you know if it bad??? I even asked the station which is buy a drag strip how old the delivery was and its the 4th one since april.

[bkm]

Whats your plug gapped at? When I switched over to my Pro-x 310 it wouldn't run for anything. I closed my plug gap to .015 and it ran great. The stock ignition system is weak at best when you start running big bore race gas setups. You may have to upgrade to a CR ignition.

[KASEY]

my 350pv RUNS PERFECT ON STOCK IGNITION,,, no need to go to cr ignition,,,

[bkm]

Mine does as well, but its also newer Honda parts. If his old stuff is wore out a CR ignition might be a good upgrade, of course unless he wants to run lights.

[pantera1975]

I got the plug at 18 thousands and a pump gas dome I just did a 50/50 for break in. IDK Ill give my ankle a few days and I want to try the original cdi,other coil and the 200 watt ricks stator that my shop took out and put in the original one. I wanna trail ride it so I need lights. why does the kick starter kick back when ever the motor fires my stock motor you could hold it down when the motor is running and it just clicks ? the motor I had redun would always kick back like that?

[atc007]

The ratchet in your kickstarter is messed up. Your problem seems to be timing related. I think you're headed in the right direction.. Sucks about your foot!! I have about 6 Permanent 350X and 250R pock marks in my right shin. Been there 25 + years!

[just ben]

170 main seems pretty small for a 38mm carb especially on a 330. should still start though I would check,adjust,change the pilot and air screw to get it running then dial in the main

[pantera1975]

The ratchet in your kickstarter is messed up. Your problem seems to be timing related. I think you're headed in the right direction.. Sucks about your foot!! I have about 6 Permanent 350X and 250R pock marks in my right shin. Been there 25 + years!
Can there be a timing issue with the motor its self or is all that based on the cdi,stator and coil? I had it taken apart and they said it all looked good. Whats the procedure for fixing the kicker?
I dont want to split the motor!

[just ben]

should be timing marks on the stator plate check service manuel. I would lean toward fuel since you said it did run (like crap)and after messing with the carb wouldnt run at all

[pantera1975]

I didnt take the carb off just changed the needle and the main. I does lead fuel out when I kick it but it really shakes when I kick it compared to stock.

[atc007]

Kickstarts all on the clutch cover side,won't have to split. I only say timing because it seems to be kicking you back way too much? A 310 has some more resistance,,but not that much. Just need to sort one thing out at a time,,maybe beginning with tow jobs to get her running. Will it run long enough to get a hot plug read?

[pantera1975]

Yeah It runs it will idle but not a a steady rpm like the stock motor did with the same carb. it smokes alot and when I ride it acts like Im pumping the throttle its fine under 1/4 throttle or so. Why does the tranny oil get gray colored. Its got 1/2 hr of run time. That motor did thats befor I had it gone thru when it was stock. My other motor the oil stays gold even after a 100 mile ride. Its not low on coolant or never has been. Thefirst plug as all black and wet with gas Ill look at this one tomarow. Gotta put some ice on the bruse on the my arch from the kicker now.

[pantera1975]

It is a power valve motor too. ESR said thay have had people have problems using aftermarket cdi??

[riverrat]

Dude, your crank seals are gone. Mine was doing EXACTLY everything your is doing. I killed myself all winter trying to figure it out. I went through 3 cdi boxes, etc etc. The oil is getting discolored because it is mixing with the crank oil and gas. You are sucking in air from both seals making it lean out, and that also causes bad kick back on start. I was sucking water (melted ice) through my stator cover.
Check the color of your plug, it's probably getting black quick due to the tranny oil getting up in there.

[Mosh]

I agree crank seals are suspect. Usually, when the seals go, you get heavy grey smoke from the pipe and it stinks like a foul running diesel tractor.

Also some things to check..

Make sure your petcock is not flooding out the carb when it is parked. I have seen them fail in the off posistion, and fill the carb then, the carb wicks fuel into the jug and loads up the bottom end. Then when you kick it with all that raw fuel in crank case, the pressure can blow the crank seals.

And make sure your compression is not too high.

[pantera1975]

The plug on the left is the plug they used with a 175 main the one on the right is from me running it in 1st and 2nd gear 1/2-1-2 thottle burst around my yard for about 1/2 hr thru the day.
the porclin in black way up in the there. This motor only has a hr of run time since a new crank bearings and seals. Its all new. The petcock seems fine I had the tank off all night and about 40 times yesterday it never leaked at all but kicking it alot for sure puts extra fuel in the motor cuz it makes a foot dia spot on the floor from the one time I kicked it 100 times. I had a lomg rod oem crank put in it and used esr's spacer. Its all new from esr and its supposed to be the pump gas dome.

[110 atc]

I assume your not running an airbox lid right? What pilot is in the carb? A 170 main does sound too small for that engine combo but, it doesn't sound like your even getting enough rpm's to be getting on the main yet.

[riverrat]

Thats not carbon build up, it's burnt motor oil from the tranny.

[250rmanfmf]

The plug on the left is the plug they used with a 175 main the one on the right is from me running it in 1st and 2nd gear 1/2-1-2 thottle burst around my yard for about 1/2 hr thru the day.
the porclin in black way up in the there. This motor only has a hr of run time since a new crank bearings and seals. Its all new. The petcock seems fine I had the tank off all night and about 40 times yesterday it never leaked at all but kicking it alot for sure puts extra fuel in the motor cuz it makes a foot dia spot on the floor from the one time I kicked it 100 times. I had a lomg rod oem crank put in it and used esr's spacer. Its all new from esr and its supposed to be the pump gas dome.

Did you do a leak down test on the motor to check the seals. I have seen new seals that dont seal properly and the leak down test found that? Also have you checked your magneto crank key? I had my shear slightly and it threw my timing off and was hard to start and when it did it ran like crap. Also is the PV adjusted correctly?

[pantera1975]

I've had the stator off and switched them. I have no idea what what my engien place did they said they do the leak down and the power valve was set from esr I have no idea if they messed with it. I pretty pissed at the whole deal. I dropped my motor off march 29th it took a month to check it over which I order the crank and seals from esr them the crank was back ordered for almost 2 months thenas soon as I got the crank I took it the the shop that was since memorial weekend then 3 weeks ago it was done and It wouldnt start so it went right back til yesterday. $400 wasted! and the hole summer wasted. All because ser was 6 weeks to do it in march and this local place was gona get right on it. There racing seems way to important for anything else. I admit Im oretty sure I got screwed. Im gona put crank seals and a new top end in my old motor and just run that for the rest of the year. I can afford to spend 600-1300 more to have my motor fixed right. I've already spent over $9000 on this thing with a complete frame up redo.

[pantera1975]

Im pretty sure theres a 50 slow jet in there and it does run better with the lid off but I know a 170 is way to small. I just played around with the jetting. If it is the seals It would make it seem like alot of things wrong. As far as leak down I havent found nobody that does or even knows how to do them! My buddy works at a kawi,yami and polaris dealerhere and they dont even get that involved when redoing somthing. I just dont feel comfy putting seals in a motor with a expensive new cyl. I mite just have esr or BDT motorsports go thru it either place is $600 for tear down assembly new gaskets and seals and new hitson bascet and clutch disks. Bearings are extra. But if it need more than that my wife will kill me she is already pissed I spent all that money and it dont run

[atc007]

Def crank seals. Whoever you payed to do that engine work needs to step up to the plate and do what is right. Are they local? ,So,you can drop the whole machine off and pick it up, together running right? I realize they have jerked you around thus far,,you need to explain to them that they ARE going to make this right ,and right NOW ! BBB? A Lot of us have been there,,spending lots of time and money only to end up spending lots more time and money!! But it still sucks!! Good luck!

[Swinger]

I am having a similar prob with my oil but all new crank, seals, bearings etc! Mine ended up being the water pump seal was bad and left the coolant into the motor. I didnt have the kick back problem though!

[110 atc]

Pantera, my buddy runs a 350 esr and uses a 185 main with 52 pilot. Hope you don't have more problems than this.

[pantera1975]

I know where I'm suppose to be for jetting and a 170 is lean I just played around with it. I looked for a cheap leak down tester and haven't seen one to get. I gonna send the motor out west and have it completely redone. Even if its just the crank seals I dont trust the work. Its my fault but I had alot of people say good things about that place. I have a brand new one long rod in it and hope the bore is good yet but bearings, seals,water pump basket,clutch ans all the gaskets Im gona have dun. I guess I paid 500 to have it tore down and put together but $80 of that was maching the cases so Im out $440. I would never think of taking it back there where I had it done in the fox valley I really feel and know I got jerked around. March 29th I dropped it off there and they were gonna get right on it. I just got it back 3 weeks ago! its was all total bs! The only reason I took it up there was because ESR and BDT motor sports was 4-6 weeks and I thought 2 100mile round trips was cheaper than sending it to California. I am the maddest though I lost a whole summer of using the motor. Its all because race quads are priority.

[pantera1975]

Well I did a compression test with my new matco tester I used last year for all my tests. The 330 has 149 psi with the pump gas dome my stock totor had 145 psi and massive piston slap. Gona pull off the pipe. there is like draniage out of the power valve that looks like what would drip from the exhaust flange leaking.

[riverrat]

Yep, I had that too. That is the excess oil, motor oil from the tranny going through the main seals, not getting burnt.

[pantera1975]

I got a tester from harbor freight to atleast give me a idea why my new rebuilt motor was low on tranny oil and why oily residue we comming out of my pv vent and in the pipe. I did 6 psi and first found the intake boot flange is leaking between the top and bottom bolts on the left side. There is some leakage around where the pv adjustment bolt is for sure. The leak down gauge said 55% leakage but IDK the way its set up IMO there should be a valve to 100% shut off the air to make the psi gauge drop in psi to show a leak maybe for this test??. I gotta pull the cover and check more tomorrow. I ran the motor about 15 minutes and the plug had oil dripping off it. The motor would backfire when trying to kick start it and the kicker would slam up. It runs like its jetted to rich at first I idled OK after I started it but after a little more running it don't idle at all now smokes alot and is sluggish it has about 150psi of kicking compression which all gauges read different but IDK if that's even good for a pump gas dome . My stock real wore out motor had 145psi with the same gauge.

[El Camexican]

Are you still trying to start that engine??? Don't waste what left of your ankle. Your seals are goooooone and it may have been from fuel seeping into the cases and hydralicing them out and making you beast hard to kick too, check that before you fix what you have. FYI: for future reference race gas has a shelf life just a tag longer than milk once it gets exposed to air and worse once you add oil. It also likes to absorb water out of the air. In a humid area your float bowl will have water in it after a week of sitting. Basicaly if you aren't going to use you trike for a week or longer you should drain the carb of race fuel. Untill you start running the trike hard, fresh premium should be fine for a fire up and testing, especialy if you arent getting your race fuel straight from a metal drum that has not been opened for more than a month.

[ceaserthethird]

Just send it to BDT Keep in contact with them, Call for Any questions.

Richard is one of the few that have had good luck with ESR's Cylinder, He does his own work and is able to make sure everythings perfect.

[pantera1975]

The first time I tried to fire it it was pump fuel I go that day and the carb came off a perfect running stock machine. All I did was jet it. The place that did the work for me found the cdi was bad. Even though it ran the day before then they said my new 200w Ricks stator was bad? IDK if they r but ll test them.

[pantera1975]

I did a leak down test now thru the intake boot and it held 8 psi all nite! Now when the motor is warm could the seals be leaking then? Im baffled. I'm gonna get another gauge to try just to fuel out error??? Ive already switched coils cdi's and stators nothing has made a difference. The crazy think is the frame carb and all the electronic were perfect running. I took out the stock motor and unplugged it and put in the 330 plunged it in and it wont run!! Im gonna pull off the clutch cover today if I have time.

[just ben]

I'm still thinking carb. you went up 80cc of coarse its not going to run right with the same jetting. you even said you went down on the main jet. what pipe were you running with the stock engine? I,m guessing you have the esr pipe on now. I would contact esr and see what they recomend for baseline carb settings and jets for your combination. I'm sure they dont build these parts without any r&d. If you want definate answers go to the source

[pantera1975]

I had the stock and esr exhaust on the stock motor ESR and BDT both said 180-185 main and 50 slow clip and the 2nd from the bottom. stock exhaust I think I had a 160 somthing and a 45-48 slow I dont remember I ran it 100 mile like that and it ran perfect. One thing I did question is what I thought was strange is if the machine was idling with the stock exhaust and my 38mm pwk if I pulled the choke it wouls rev up real high mabey 3-4000 rpm warm or cold. ESR said thats normal. I've only had the stock 86 carbs before. Riding it 100 miles It did have alot more power and the mpg was still about 25-30 with either carb.

[riverrat]

I did a leak down test now thru the intake boot and it held 8 psi all nite! Now when the motor is warm could the seals be leaking then? Im baffled. I'm gonna get another gauge to try just to fuel out error??? Ive already switched coils cdi's and stators nothing has made a difference. The crazy think is the frame carb and all the electronic were perfect running. I took out the stock motor and unplugged it and put in the 330 plunged it in and it wont run!! Im gonna pull off the clutch cover today if I have time.


Are those seals new?????

If not, they are the cause. I will tell you my story, because my problem baffled me for two years. It starts off slowly and gets worse and worse until the bike won't run or start. It started with me getting water in the stator cover. I changed cover gaskets about 5 times, and did everything I could to find what I thought was a leak. I only run on the ice, so ice gets sprayed up on the engine, and then melts around the stator cover. As the water would build up in there, it would get to point and then start breaking up and not running right. I would have to take it all apart and dry it out. I even bought a new stator just as a precautionary measure. The reason was because the seal on that side was going, and it was creating negative pressure in the stator cover area, and no matter how well I sealed it, some drops would get in due to the heavy amount of water and ice in that area.
Fast forward to icefest. I still hadn't resolved that issue, but I knew if I just dried it out, and stayed out of the heavy ice/slush it should last the race. (still not knowing the cause). Took it for a ride, and it started breaking up. Checked the stator and it was dry! Looked at the plug and it was black (I thought carbon) so I jetted down one, thinking it was the higher altitude at raffas. Put a new plug in it, and it was good for 20 laps, but then it would break up again. I checked the plug, it was black again. I didn't dare go down in jet because I thought no way could it have to change that much. Maybe I had a carb problem, maybe some other problem? I don't know. It was fine when it was cold, but as soon as the motor reached full temp, it would start breaking up. I did well in my heat race, but in the main after a great start, my motor started breaking up again, and fell to third, right on the first lap. The next day without doing anything, I did 15 or so laps before it started breaking up.
Fast forward, back home I start working on it trying to figure out the problem. It starts getting worse and worse, and I was having every single symptom you are having. I even bought a new coil and cdi box at this point, which actually made the condition worse, because now I had full spark and that helped caused it to kick back while trying to start it.
If your seals are gone, you will have these conditions and possibly more. You will get water in the stator cover, It will run lean but the plug will look rich, it will kick back on start because of the lean condition, you will have motor oil on your plug, you will have 2stroke oil and gas in your tranny making it gray, you will have excess oil dripping around the exhaust manifold, your plug will be black, and possibly dripping with oil, the condition gets worse as it warms up, and you will be going insane trying to figure out the problem.

Do yourself a favor, if those are the original seals, just change them. It would be easier than all the time you've spent typing in this forum. Also you have to make sure your crank isn't groved. Even if you have new seals and the crank is groved, you could have the same problem. If your bearings are gone, the problem can be worse. The wobble causes the seals to leak. If you don't do it, I am going to come over your house and do it for you out of frustration, lol

[pantera1975]

Its a new OEM crank and seals I just put together a leak down tester and posted the results. I can see what you are getting at I appreciae the imput even though it hurts I'm in a shitty deal I dont wish this on no one. Plus my wife is not impressed. It just comes down to I dont trust the place that did the work. After I took the motor there and they said we will get right on it and it was a month to take it apart to tell me everythings perfect on a motor thats never been worked on I had a bad feeling. Im gonna just park it for the year and send it out and have it all gone over and pc the cases. I waited 4 months for the motor to get done as it is. There was other things they did too that wernt impressive. ! of which was I paid 350 for tear down, assembly and maching the cases and then When It wouldnt shift as in the shifter would stay up or down they said bring it up we will fix it right away. 3 weeks laiter they did messed with it and told me it was normal to kick back and the jetting was off which they said was fine in the first place. So to make a long story short It cost me $150 to have the clutch cover pulled off and the shifting problem fixed. I will eat the money I've spent before I take it back for repair. Frustrating.

[pantera1975]

I pulled off my top end and it dont look good I called esr and it sounded like they will send me a replacement cylinder. Eddie said it looks like coolant in there. Then I measured the stator side crank seal depth varied from 5.22 mm-6.97! What is the stator seal need to be set at? My leg is getting better wen as long as it dont back fire it will be ok. The motor had 149 psi of compression with the pump gas dome and the leak down test held 8 psi all nite 3 times.

[pantera1975]

Here are some better pictures

[jadleybray]

retard the timing couple degrees. Should help with the kickback

[Red Rider]

I don't understand why ESR supplied you with a piston drilled for an exhaust bridge, when your PV cylinder doesn't have an exhaust bridge.

[pantera1975]

IDK y esr sent what they did I just ordered it?? Leaking head gasket esr said will make it hard to start and back fire i guess. Thats 1 problem the other is prob the clutch side crank seal must leak even though the leak down test was ok. The oil would discolor in 5 min of use. plus the stator seal is in crooked.

[riverrat]

I pulled off my top end and it dont look good I called esr and it sounded like they will send me a replacement cylinder. Eddie said it looks like coolant in there. Then I measured the stator side crank seal depth varied from 5.22 mm-6.97! What is the stator seal need to be set at? My leg is getting better wen as long as it dont back fire it will be ok. The motor had 149 psi of compression with the pump gas dome and the leak down test held 8 psi all nite 3 times.


There is that seal word again. :)
What is wrong with the cylinder that you need a replacement?

[pantera1975]

It has grooves in it that I can catch my finger nail on there are no cross hash mask left on the intake and exhaust side and it was only run a hour. I no seals! LOL! Im gona put then in. Is it reall at all posiable for coolant to leak in the right case or will it always come out of the weap hole? ESR wanted the cyl back.

[pantera1975]

I kinda looked at my motor again tonite and noticed the CB is loose on the clutch side. I can make the 2 gears tighter or looser. Man what next.

[jadleybray]

who assembled this motor

[pantera1975]

Janssen motor sports in Kaukana Wisconsin

[jadleybray]

Why aren't they dealing with these issues instead of you directly? You are there customer. Who purchased the cylinder, you or Janssen?

[pantera1975]

I got the cyl my self. The motor sat there all summer and kept hearing next week next week since march. I just dont trust there work seeing the rest of what they did. Ill call them when I get it running is possible. Or if I cant I will call them. What really burned me was it didnt run and there was somthing messed up with the shifting I took it back and he charged me for the coolant and tranny oil! then it sat there for 3 weeks on top of it and told me it was jetting. I gave up. either way I dont anticipate on riding it at all this yr and Ill have it gone thru this fall. Havent decided 100% where its gona go. Juust go to the begining of this thread. You will know why I went back and got it from them. Plus I work for a place that does the excact same thing to customers.