help! tons of smoke

[rwdriver]

Ok, so I just bought an 84 200s this morning from a guy off kijiji. It's in good shape, but it needed valve seals (smoked a bit) lucky for me, the bike came with an extra head, so this afternoon, I swapped the heads, and now it smokes 10x more than before. I don't get it. The combustion chamber on the current head looked fine, no oil, just the common blackish carbon buildup, So I assumed that the valve seals didn't leak. The oil must be coming from either the valve seals or the rings, right? The motor still has lots of compression, and runs good, even though it billows out huge clouds of white smoke. what could this be from?

[atc007]

You need a fresh piston and rings,prolly a bore,check your timing chain and guides while you're in there. Never go to the extent of doing ALL that work ,and not buy fresh gaskets and pull the cylinder to find out what's REALLY going on! IF your piston has virtually NO scratches ,looks great and your bore still measures fairly fresh,,you MAY get away with fresh rings. And just a hone ,rather than a bore. Let us know what you find! Good luck,and welcome!

[dougspcs]

Just as dumb question, did you reuse the head gasket or replace it with a new one. Also torque with a torque wrench of just use the "force" to retighten? Was the head you installed surface checked?

Just a few things that might make your 'new' head sieve oil into you cylinder for it to burn like a mosquito fogger!!

The rings may indeed need to be replaced also as 'atc007' meantioned..but the major smoke came from from something you did or didn't do when you installed the head..

Here is a link to some of the manuals available to download to give you the torques specs in case you don't have them..

http://www.oscarmayer.net/atc/manuals/

[rwdriver]

I did reuse the HG, is that a no-no? I think the problem is probably oil leaking past the HG into the cylinder, because the rings and valve seals were good before I took it apart.
thanks

[dougspcs]

I think you are spot on with your guess..gaskets, especially head gaskets can't be reused because they compress when torqued during the orginal installation.

Once compressed they will never seal again..

[MonroeMike]

If the o-ring is missing or bad, it will suck oil into the combustion chamber and blow smoke out the exhaust (besides starving the upper end of oil).
#3
http://www.xtremeusa.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=117289&category=ATVs&make=HONDA&year=1984&fveh=2801

I would never use a old head gasket either.

[rwdriver]

aaaaaah, now that makes sense. Ok, I will pull the engine out again, and see if that o-ring is there.

[rwdriver]

ok, so I just yanked the engine out, took the head off, and there was no o-ring, so I put one it, and put it all back together, and it is no different from before! now I'm puzzled. Now I'm thinking that the valve seals may be bad. The head that is on it now was purchased with the bike, and I have no clue how long it had been sitting, so mabey the seals dried out after sitting for so long?

also, I was thinking about what monroemike said about the o-ring, and I don't understand how oil could get past a head gasket that is meant to hold however many thousands of psi of combustion pressure. If the oil could leak in, woulden't combustion gasses leak out?

tomorrow I will order valve seals and rings, and we'll see if that fixes it

[MonroeMike]

also, I was thinking about what monroemike said about the o-ring, and I don't understand how oil could get past a head gasket that is meant to hold however many thousands of psi of combustion pressure. If the oil could leak in, woulden't combustion gasses leak out?

That and oil, eventually.

Here's another post about it.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?6907-little-green-o-ring&p=38953#post38953

[kylegrimes]

Replace your head gasket and it will run like a bat out of hell!!!!!

[tri again]

My favorite quote about hondas
"throw a few parts at them and they'll run forever..AGAIN!"

[rwdriver]

I just checked the motor's compression, and it's at 140psi. Is it possible for the rings to be bad?

[kylegrimes]

If you reused your head gasket then you need a new one never reuse a gasket

[DasUberKraut]

Not to hijack your thread RW but I just started my 125m earlier and noticed it was smoking quite a bit. After it warmed up a bit the smoke subsided but still noticeable. I do know this trike sat for a couple years before I aquired it. I haven't ran it alot yet, just messing around with it in the driveway and whatnot to get idle and accelleration right. Should I start with valve seals or go straight to rings? Also, can these be changed without removing the engine? I do have the manual but haven't looked at it.

Sorry again RW. I feel needy if I start a new thread just for my own problems when someone else has the same problem. LOL.