Engine noise

[ZackW]

Ok, so I was out riding my new 200 today and everything was fine until I parked it and during idle I noticed a new sound. I don't know much about these things yet, but generally figure any kind of odd noise in an engine can't be a good sign. It's really hard to tell where it is coming from, but kinda sounds like the back of the engine, no idea really. Yes it has oil and it's clean.

Anyway, took a short vid and hopefully it's good enough for someone to have any kind of idea. I just bought this damn thing, so all I need is to have to replace the motor.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pdmiTkDXYE

[Dirtcrasher]

Not good, something sounds like it's clunking around in there or loose. Better narrow it down and figure it out. Hey, these things aren't new and allot of people buy them cheap and abuse them so you never know what your getting.....

Does that have the hi/low gearbox? could be a simple issue in there.

[ZackW]

No hi/low on it, and as for narrowing it down I have no idea where to even begin. I'm not a mechanic by any means and really don't have the time to tear apart an engine, especially when I don't know what I'm doing. The damn thing was running great all day and all of a sudden this started, I wasn't even pushing the engine at all. Guess I'll have to find a mechanic around here and likely let it sit for months until I get the cash to actually have it worked on.

Man, this thing is (was) nice too.. the ugly 200s beater I have can be abused all day long and I've not had a single noise come out of it.

[tri again]

Sometimes you can pinpoint a noise by putting a broomstick to your ear
and the other end on various engine parts.
Non conductive tool is best in case you get near the spark.

It's pretty amazing how different sounds come through.

My audio is messed up but I'll have a better listen tomorrow with full hook up to my stereo.

So it ran great, no one over revved it, there IS good oil in it.
let's see, what else.?
Can you imagine what a timing chain might sound like?
a whir, occasional slapping sound?

Does it still run great?
Shifts normally?

[Chazz of Blades]

Just take a screwdriver, preferably one with the metal cap at the end and the metal pole bit all the way through to it, and put the cap part to your ear, and the screwdriver(Long one preferably, engines get quite warm ya know), up against the engine, and you can pinpoint the sound if possible.

[ZackW]

I don't think I over revved it, definitely no more than I have done to my other trike. Even then it's not like I'm holding it at wide open for an extended amount of time, just quick burps. Me and the fiancee took a quick trip down the road on both our trikes (after letting them warm up a bit) , and when we got back she was asking about pushing the engine too hard when riding. So I was revving them a bit to show her what was ok (at least what I thought was), and after that is when I noticed the clunking. I've seen some vids where people are relentless with their throttle on these things and have no problems, and I wasn't even doing close to what they are.

I took it for a quick run around the yard, and other than the random clunking noise, it seemed to run ok. At least as well as it did when I first brought it home. It doesn't sound like a rod, not what I know most rod knocks to sound like anyway, and it seems completely random in nature. It's always there, but has no set frequency or anything related to the throttle that I can tell, although it does increase a bit as throttle is advanced. I tried loosening the cam chain adjuster, but it didn't make any difference at all to how the engine ran.

It was having issues with dying at idle before this started, but always sounded fine with a little throttle. The guy I bought it off of told me he was pretty thorough with maintenance, and it looks it, the trike is clean. Told me he would fill the oil just a little under full then would put in some lucas oil treatment at every fill. It was full when he showed me the dipstick, doesn't smoke, and has no leaks, so I'm assuming it's all still in there, haven't looked yet since the noise started. Just shut it off and threw it in the garage and went inside all pissed off.

I took the vid with my phone, so the audio isn't the greatest. Will have to try my little camera and see if it's any better.

[tri again]

One the rev topic, they'll usually float the valves and stop revving so I'm with you.
Doesn't sound like an issue and certainly shouldn't be.

You know there are shop manuals for free in the 'world class help' section, right?
I forget the actual timing chain adjustment procedure, loosen this one but not that one etc etc.

and I assume the noise is when the trike is not moving? and in neutral?
does it try to move at idle like the clutch is adjusted too tight?

I had a new new 87 br rapping so bad it made me sick sick sick from 100 feet away.

I would have bet a thousand dollars it was a terminal rod knock.
When I got to adjust the valves, someone didn't tighten the adjuster nut
and the valve lash was like a quarter to 1/2 inch.

5 min valve adjust and it's been perfect ever since.

Hopefully it's something super simple and ez.

[ZackW]

No movement at idle and noise persists driving in any gear. I don't have the tools needed (well, mainly the feelers) to do a valve adjustment and really don't think I'd trust myself doing it. Think I may just call the local repair shop and see what they'd charge me to have them look the engine over and figure out what's wrong. I'd really hate to drop more money into this after already paying more than I really wanted to just to buy it, but don't want a huge paperweight sittin in the garage either.

[tri again]

No movement at idle and noise persists driving in any gear. I don't have the tools needed (well, mainly the feelers) to do a valve adjustment and really don't think I'd trust myself doing it. Think I may just call the local repair shop and see what they'd charge me to have them look the engine over and figure out what's wrong. I'd really hate to drop more money into this after already paying more than I really wanted to just to buy it, but don't want a huge paperweight sittin in the garage either.


You can just pop the valve caps off and hold down on the rockers with a rag and see if it quiets down.
..while it's running. It may try to spit a little oil but nothing major.

When it's not running and the engine is at TDC and both valves are closed,
you should be able to feel the tiniest bit of play when moving the rocker arm
up and down.
like the thickness of a couple pieces of paper. .003" .005"?

a matchbook used to be .007" for example. single cardboard thickness

Valves also operate , well, valve camshafts run at 1/2 the engine speed if that helps you pinpoint anything.

so, if you can imagine hearing exhaust pulses, which pop every 4th revolution of the crank,
a valve noise would be what? twice that or 1/2 actual crank revs?

A little too late for math and counting on my fingers.

My dog is looking at me funny.

We'll check on you tomorrow.
Just remember your finaces' smiles when you ride together and everything will be fine.

[cbx1170]

after cking tappets and or worn camshaft lobes its prolly one of 2 things. advancer bad corroded - pull top little cover 2 #2 phillips srews on each side. while running noise will get louder as cover comes off. at idle simply put your finger on side of advancer beside bolt head as it spins. preloading, if it quiets its an old advancer take apart lube and retry or replace.
the other thing and prolly your problem cam chain tensioner. try and adjust by loosening 14mm (9/16) nut 1/2 turn is all u need at base of cyl LH side under black rubber. this "unlocks" the tensioner to let it adjust itself and tighten nut. small 10mm head bolt can be removed and small 3mm screw like turn signal screw or tailight lens screw 2-3 inches inserted and thread in 1 -2 turns down center and pull up lightly. LIGHTLY. this manually forces tensioner to bow and take slack out of chain. if cam chain is still noisy and seems like adjusting it does nothing either chain is way worn or the part that goes on the bottom of tensioner "slipper" 8"~10" Black vertical curved thing is broken. seen this. it looks like a small metal part with vertical smooth shaft 3/4 inch tall & internally threaded at top, on bottom has side ways pin that tensioner "slipper" fits on. pulling up bows tensioner and tighten chain. not TOO much.... overtightening is bad also. just quiet. P/N 14520-969-010 . if adjusting chain at this lower area doesn't do anything anything BAR TENSIONER SETTING prolly broke inside and hanging. recoil, flywheel rotor and LH lower engine carankcase cover has to come off. Hope this isn't too long or or confusing. 25+ years workin on Honda engines. Mike

after listening again sounds like cam chain loose!!!!!!!!!! watch out may break! bend valves!

[ZackW]

Would a bad cam chain cause it to create noise in front and rear of engine? Cause I was having a hard time figuring out where it was coming from cause it seemed like it jumped around. If so, bout how much does something like that usually cost to get replaced at a shop? I really don't have the time or space to tear down my engine right now.

Come to think of it, the PO mentioned he thought it had a different cam installed in it, so I wonder if in fact that is where the problem lies.

[just ben]

I would also say to look at the cam chain. if it happened all of the sudden the adjuster may have failed. or the chain guide. download a manual if you dont have one. I would see if there is any adjustment left. I would also check the valve adjustment. kinda hard to pinpoint a noise an a video but it really doesnt sound like a rod knock. cam chain noise would come from either the front or rear of the or both depending where it is hitting

[1984 honda 200s]

sorry to change subject about the cam chain but does your pull starter work?? my brothers blew appart on him few weeks back and all the doggs were hitting the flywheel and starter cup making a hell of a noise...just a thought. Also could be your flywheel nut came loose--happened to me on my 200s it made a noise simular to that. I wouldnt run it till its checked out. Good luck.

[Chazz of Blades]

I set my valves at .051mm, I've found that's the quietest, and the best setting for em. I've set my 200s to ALT185 settings(by the manual), to .08, and it's loud as crap.

[cbx1170]

Doesn't sound like recoil dogs. This is a slapping sound LH side of engine crankshaft area to cyl head.... cam chain slapping when rev slapping changes dramatically as chain is loaded and unloaded by cam lobes. And I will add to what i said. Cam chain tensioner is not working right or worn out or broken therefore cam chain is very loose and wearing fast. If you just rode it a total of lets say 2 hours ago and it did not make this noise then your tensioner system just failed and chain might be saved if you fix this immed. however if it was making this noise more than the 2-5 hrs of running time tensioner system and chain are way bad. either way when you get it apart to fix whatever is bad a new chain is very easy to slip in there. 2 oil, LH crankcase cover gskt, squared o-ring if i remember right, advancer base gasket seal is prolly ok, cam chain and whatever tensioner parts, upper tensioner bolt alum gskt. However unlikely BUT if front cam chain slipper failed it is captured by cyl head to cyl. Motor out and head off. Mike.

on Jap bike engines with auto cam chain tensioner failing they still will somewhat operate ok above 3 RPM noise will quit down alot. at idle noisy slappy just like this. the locking mechanisms get weak with age and then the spring in the tensioner tries to handle the load but can't at idle. remember its all just cheap jap junk. Just Kidding!!!! Ex bike tech.