Thanks Look!!

[Headsup]

Well finally i got to CLean my Gas out, Runs Great Now Thanks to every1 here,
85 honda 250sx.
Well anyway, i was riding Great, then all of a sudden, Boom grinding noise and My trike was Wobbly.

Well i got off to look and here my Bearings are 100% shot, Fell out and all.
Take it home, Hoping it did nothing to my Final drive,
See the cap to the swingarm, Take that off, Next is a LockNut. Now This little trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro is down right Crazy.. Any ideas. Or do i need to go spend 60 bucks for a little tool.?

Thought of taking a Socket and cuttting lips in it, idk
the bolt is corroded and it looks like its going to be hard to get off, Soaked it in pb and others stuff, Just Took a couple whacks with a hammer and a screwdriver, But it didnt move, so i just stopped, came here to ask every1.
I am buying the bearing on Ebay tomorrow., Well today,
here is a link to them,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140563223128&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

anyway what do you all think?
Thanks again

[muthey]

put up some pics of the nut please so we can get a look at what you are talking about

[Headsup]

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/aldochina/102_2856.jpg

That would be the lock nut bolt, and then the swing arms Bolt, the thing with the 4 prongs is what i need off that other peice, That tool would be great but i dont have a welder, Or anything really to cut a socket. and my bolt is corroded

[muthey]

Ok I'm following now I really wouldn't use a hamer or screwdriver on that at all good way to goober some threads, have you talked with a local welding shop or anything like that I'm guessing they could make you something really quick like that would work, might have to load it up so they can get the right size down but would be alot cheaper than ordering a tool, or maybe asking your local honda shop to rent their tool or something, never know till you ask. Also one of the guys on here might make you a tool or let you borrow one to do it if you ask around.

[tri again]

That goofy looking locknut is just that.

If it's rusted, the tool, if you can find or make one will probably just slip.
unless you use a rattle gun set real low a few times over a few days.

I just got aggravated and used a healthy sledge and a very stout punch
(not a screwdriver) and one whack popped it loose, since that's ALL is has to do.

If it's a 17mm allen wrench like the sx I just did,
get a bolt with a 17mm head and a couple nuts, like double nut them together and viola'
you have a 17mm allen wrench for a buck.

Getting the races out is another exercise in mass, inertia and physics.

The races seem to be set INto a bore that is machined from the outside so there may or may not be any lip to grab the races from the inside to pull them out.

We got a small grinding wheel and kinda cut the metal on the far inside just past the race so we could hit it from the opposite side of the swing arm,
again,
with a hefty, non flexible piece of tool steel, like a regular tool steel drift/punch.

Let us know when you get that far.

some folks cut/split the races to get them out, some weld nuts to them and use a slide hammer.

Pack with dry ice and they should fall out, idk

Race pullers, like a battery terminal puller need some place to grab the inside / backside of the race, which is why we took a grinding wheel to the swing arm where the races are pressed into.
if you can picture what I'm trying to describe.

Please keep us posted, we'll get you through it.

[tri again]

http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv103/aldochina/102_2856.jpg

That would be the lock nut bolt, and then the swing arms Bolt, the thing with the 4 prongs is what i need off that other piece, That tool would be great but i dont have a welder, Or anything really to cut a socket. and my bolt is corroded

Yupp, that the tool alright but is prob more effective to 'torque' it back on.

You'll need one sharp whack with a hefty hammer and a stout punch that won't flex when you hit it.
A screwdriver will not transfer enough angst.

Then that whole stubby axle thing will be able to screw out with your homemade 17mm bolt/wrench described in a next post.

an 1/8 of a turn on that lock nut is all that's needed to loosen it.

That stub axle, or whatever its called is adjusted very gingerly to set the preload on your new tapered swing bearing,
so not too tight and not too lose and remember it is all relative to the bearing on the OTHER side of the swingarm too.

so...tighten gently, just perfectly and then that castle nut you hate right now, is what keeps your bearing preload set to perfection, and a another crisp whack with a small sledge and stout punch will simply lock it where you want it to stay.

I know, it's a fascinating design, extremely intimidating and also makes perfect sense after you get it apart and back together.

but at this rate , you only have to do this project 4 times a century.

Some people put a wooden dowel in the swingarm to take up space and then put in a grease fitting and fill that whole tube with grease.
minus the volume displaced by the wooden dowel.

or like Muthey said, see if the honda dealer or bike shop will just buzz that nut loose with your trike in your truck for a buck
(had to make it rhyme, sorry)

I also did mine by removing less than 1/2 the stuff the manual said.

For instance, I left the wheels on and blocked everything on a trailer with firewood and tie downs to keep the trike from dancing around.

But all you need to do is get the swingarm back a couple inches so you can leave the brake cables alone etc etc.

we also found bearings with races and seals locally for like 12 bucks
The number is 30203
mfg is axis
and also fits something real common like a ford falcon front wheel bearing

[Headsup]

Ok, Well its 1:30Am here, i will try this all tomorrow, I will go get a 17mm nut or 2 But how would i use them To turn the Allen bolt? Not sure i understand there, Wouldnt it just loosen up the Nut from the other one, If i stick them on a Bolt?.
Like i said i have no special tools, Thought of buying a socket and using my haxsaw, But like it was said, I think it will be a waste. Its really rusted. Liek 20 years of it.
also i do not know what u mean by races, But i guess i will find out.
Also the trike wobbels, Like there are no bearings in it at all. idk, wouldnt seem to hard, But these races things are starting to scare me, Been hearing about them. can you describe what it is? Very tired and fed up, I just want to get it in shape to ride.
i mean anythings cheap, Not free, idc i will spend a little, But 60 bucks for a little tool is just way out of my ball park.
i will buy a Nice size punch, and try to use my Sledge, not sure that will even break it loose.

also is there anything cheap i can buy to put on it and heat it up?

also is it reverse threads? Or normal?

[tri again]

Ok, Well its 1:30Am here, i will try this all tomorrow, I will go get a 17mm nut or 2 But how would i use them To turn the Allen bolt? Not sure i understand there, Wouldnt it just loosen up the Nut from the other one, If i stick them on a Bolt?.

Imagine the 17mm bolt head as being just like a 17mm allen wrench that fits into that stub axle. The 2 nuts are tightened to each other on your new bolt so you have something to grab onto with a wrench so you can turn that axle lose, after you get the lock nut loose.

The 17mm bolt head fits right into the axle to unscrew it instead of buying a 'real' 17mm allen wrench for 22 bucks and the double nuts tightened to each other gives you a way to turn it all.



Like i said i have no special tools, Thought of buying a socket and using my haxsaw, But like it was said, I think it will be a waste. Its really rusted. Liek 20 years of it.
also i do not know what u mean by races, But i guess i will find out.
Also the trike wobbels, Like there are no bearings in it at all. idk, wouldnt seem to hard, But these races things are starting to scare me, Been hearing about them. can you describe what it is? Very tired and fed up, I just want to get it in shape to ride.
i mean anythings cheap, Not free, idc i will spend a little, But 60 bucks for a little tool is just way out of my ball park.
i will buy a Nice size punch, and try to use my Sledge, not sure that will even break it loose.

also is there anything cheap i can buy to put on it and heat it up?

also is it reverse threads? Or normal?

NOT reverse thread , just stuck.
propane torch, heat it, spray it with pb blaster or liquid wrench a few times.

The outside of that locknut complex looks waaay worse than what's behind it.
The threads are so fine and so tight that they'll be clear inside there and that locknut only has to come loose, not all the way off those rusty threads.


You'll ruin the rubber seals but they're dead anyway and new ones should come with the bearings and races.

You DO know that shop manuals are free under the 'world class help section"?????

and www.bikebandit.com has exploded parts diagrams so you can see what's in there.

all in all, I think we spent 12 bucks for bearings and races, 3$ for grease seals for the bearings and 3 bucks for spray penetrant.
so under 20 bucks for sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't bother making a tool.
It will just slip anyway.
a NEW factory tool in the right hands with a 1/2 air gun set really LOW MAY rattle it loose


If you have a little time, you can try the search key since lots of people have been thru this over the years.

You'll get it.
We always do, no matter how impossible or incomprehensible as it may seem right now.

You'll be a better person for it all and just imagine the bragging rights you'll have.

Heck, this project would even look good on a resume'.

[Headsup]

LoL, Ok thanks for the info, I will go out and get my things i need tomorrow, So the Lock nut doesnt need to come all the way off for the pivot bolt to come out? Good, I am just goign to try Brute force tomorrow, i will let ya know how it goes tomorrow. Maybe with pics.
So Just all that seems to be scary is that damn nut,

[tri again]

LoL, Ok thanks for the info, I will go out and get my things i need tomorrow, So the Lock nut doesnt need to come all the way off for the pivot bolt to come out? Good, I am just goign to try Brute force tomorrow, i will let ya know how it goes tomorrow. Maybe with pics.
So Just all that seems to be scary is that damn nut,


Yupp, just one clean hit on one of those locknut ears and you can also have someone trying to turn the 17 mm
stub axle thing loose. at the same time.
Do it so you won't ruin the threads if you slip.
I put a penny against the threads, held it there with the punch and tapped it.
It's really not that tight by spec.

The whole project is somewhat of a wrestling match but also a refreshing change from the tedious
details of wiring gremlins that keep running and hiding.

At least this is a good honest structural failure.

I think that locknut is there to scare off mere mortals.
They shoulda put a smiley face on it.
We used to glue green army men into transmissions and stuff we sent back for core charges.

Give the guys in the factory shops something to laugh at.



You'll be amazed how simple that whole complex really is
and the sheer genius that designed it to put up with
unlimited abuse.

[Headsup]

Ahh no prevail, No idea what to try now, Thinking of Just cutting the pivot botl off, And then taking off the swingarm and trying to get it out that way. I bought a new pivot bolt and locknut with nearings, Just is that a good idea? Dont want to go Haxsawing the thing and then i need a new swingarm. Please guys keep the ideas rolling.. So shall i cut it off??

[Headsup]

yea just an update, Thanks for All the help, But i just cant get it off, The nuts chewed to hell also, So a Honda Tool wont even fit prolly now. So frustrating just got it running like a Champ. Figures,
Went out and bought a Punch, With no prevail, Whacking on it with a sledge hammer also. Soaked it, Soaked it again, and then Soaaked it again, lol 2 liquid wrench, 1pb blaster, 1wd,

Just wondering should i just hack the pivot bolt in half? I mean ounce the swingarm is off i Might be able to manage to get it out, I can always get another pivot bolt, just i dont want to cut it and it wont come out anyway.
Also i have a manual, But they Took that off when it was brand new there, With "The Tool" So
Cut The Pivot Bolt?

[muthey]

I'd say yes, as long as you don't damage the swing in the process, you can always drive the old bolt out when it's of so no worries with that

[Headsup]

Ok thanks, I wwas just sorta waiting for the go ahead, I will cut it tomorrow with a haxsaw, Thanks, Ill let ya know how it goes from there.

[tri again]

I've seen sx swing arms for sale on ebay and other places.

If you could find someone with a 17mm allen wrench that fits a 1/2 inch air gun , it might just buzz both the locknut and the bolt out at the same time.

That funny locknut is just to hold the adjustment or freeplay when you adjust the new tapered 'wheel bearings' with that funny stub axle.


Going back together, Make sure the swing arm moves nicely, tighten it a little more, then back off a little, just like a regular wheel bearing.
then that flop eared lock nut wants a torque of ??? or whatever it takes to keep it from coming loose.

The torque specs for the stub 'axle' bolt is what actually preloads the tapered 'wheel' swing bearings isn't very much .
Just make sure it swings/pivots easily and not too loose.


Too bad you can't just try to split it with a nice sharp little chisel, or a psycho friend with an air chisel.

Your story made me walk around all my swing arm trikes and spray them.

so, you're thinking about cutting the stub axle like on the inside of the swingarm where the roller bearings fell out?
I'm assuming that the bearings failed opposite the driveshaft side?

All you really need is clearance of the thickness of the bearing, say 1/2"
to weasel the swing arm side to side so it can 'fall out' of the frame.

You just might have enough room without cutting anything, since the bearing rollers are already gone.

Like I said, we had ours on a trailer, strapped and blocked 15 ways to tuesday with 2 people and prybars, a real wrestling match.

Too bad you're so far away.

I think all the tools for that job are still in a bucket right where we left them.

[up-tyte]

I just replaced the bearing in a 86 sx. Harbor Freight has a cheap metric allen set that goes to 17mm, on sale about $13. I ended up just replacing the bearing itself as the race seemed to be okay and was not scored or scratched. I saw in the ebay pic the two metal caps, those are not mentioned in the manual it looked like part of the frame. The swing arm bolt is what torques to 12-14 ft lbs and the lock nut torques to 72-94 ft lbs. I modified a socket to get the lock nut out and will have to make a wrench out of a piece of pipe to tighten the lock nut.

[Headsup]

Ok, Yes DJ i was going to cut it On that side, Right where u said to, Going to get Blades soon, and going to try it, I hope it will work, Not sure what u mean by it might have enough room since my insides fell out,

Maybe i will go get a 17mm allen wrench and give it a try with that, Maybe i can get the pivot bolt out with the nut still on it.
Thanks guys

[tri again]

Ok, Yes DJ i was going to cut it On that side, Right where u said to, Going to get Blades soon, and going to try it, I hope it will work, Not sure what u mean by it might have enough room since my insides fell out,

Maybe i will go get a 17mm allen wrench and give it a try with that, Maybe i can get the pivot bolt out with the nut still on it.
Thanks guys


see?
the swing arm needs to rock from side to side to get past the stub axle and the bearing mount on the driveshaft tube on the other side..
Both stick out maybe an inch or so.

I'm trying to think of an analogy..maybe like picture an open end wrench that's too big for a bolt...and it can slop back and forth .

The 'right' way is to back out the axle with the lock nut on it to give you that 1/2 inch or so that you need to get the swing arm to come out.

Now since your bearings are simply gone, you may have enough slop from side to side for the whole swingthing to come off without cutting the funny bolt.

You may also be able to destroy the bearing on the opposite side driveshaft tube to give you a little more room too.
It's just a sheetmetal caged roller and may almost fall apart anyway.

If you can't find a 17mm allen wrench, any bolt with a 17mm head will fit in there too.

Don't feel bad,
We stared at our sx project for a week or so before we got mad and threw everything we had at it.

Just aggravated enough to take one good solid swing at that nut with a 3 lb sledge and a good tool steel punch.

It helped that we had nothing to lose at that point, so desparation breeds
invention.

Just try prying the swingarm side to side before you cut anything.

it may just have enough room to fall off. and if not, it will be annoyingly superclose.

[up-tyte]

You might be able to drill a hole in the lock nut to relieve some pressure. Just drill at a notch and then pry it lose and take it all out together. That might be easier to try than cut the swingarm bolt.

[Headsup]

Nope swingarm does not move side to side hardly at all, I think i know what your saying though,

On the drive shaft side there is An inch or so of over hang? Like a Bar That the barrings would go onto. i think i understand, Last thing i can try to to cut a half in to andf inch out of that pivot bolt, Then try to remove it ounce the swingarm is off..

[Headsup]

LoL, Wuhahahaah, Cut the pivot bolt off, Pryed the Drive shaft back, Pop Off came my swingarm, Thanks To every1 here!!
Now i just need to get the Bolt off my swing arm, Wondering if they sell a 17mm allen wrench, That is big enough to get some good Pull on it,

Everything Thanks guys, Mucyh appreciated, Finnally the swingarm is off, Now just the bolt out,
Any ideas on a good way to remove it? Drill re tap or any tool you think that would work?

[tri again]

You might be able to drill a hole in the lock nut to relieve some pressure. Just drill at a notch and then pry it lose and take it all out together. That might be easier to try than cut the swingarm bolt.

I love that idea.

[Headsup]

Getting it slowly, Taking a hacksaw and Cutting threw the Pivot bolt, Taking about a half in. chunck out at a time, Hope this works, Have a new pivot bolt on its way, Also going to get more blades tomorrow, The one i have gave up.
Think that will work? Or will it screw my threads up inside on my swingarm? Im going to be gentle as i do not want to buy a swingarm.

[honda250sx]

Check this thread out. Lots of good homemade tools to get that baby apart.

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?92488-The-curious-case-of-Jim-s-SX-How-to-save-a-Trike

[Headsup]

Ok, Im going to read that thread, Thanks, I started to cut the bolt out, Like long ways to take chunks out at a time, But the pieces i cut, DOesnt seem to want to come out, No idea. Ima try to get more PB and Soak it, Hacksaw it again, Trying to be careful not to hit the Threads for the swingarm,, But i have no idea.

[up-tyte]

Did you try drilling the lock nut to take it off first? You should be able to just drill it on both sides, same as cutting it with a saw but drilling instead of cutting. Just don't drill any deeper then the nut is thick, I think about 3/16" in the notch. Once that is off I bet the bolt will just turn out.

[Headsup]

LoL, Cut it, Took pressure of hammered a little, Then walla nut spun off, Got the bolt out, Threads are Intact, Bolt is on it way with my Bearings, Thanks You All!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[muthey]

glad to hear everything went well in the end

[Headsup]

Thanks if it wasnt for You really, I got threw it, i am Going to make a video, and take some pics for you all when i get my Bearings, Thanks again, Just look for pics soon,

Thanks a ton again.
What a person can do when their is no other option

[up-tyte]

Glad to hear you won the battle.