185s still won't run right

[79fordblake]

I removed the stock 185s carb from my '81 185s and bought one of those ebay 200x carbs.

I still am having the same problem as before you never know if it will idle right. It has a new throttle cable and its routed correctly and not binding, slide goes up and down in the carb easily.

I have the needle that came with it on the 4th notch down. Mid throttle is great. I can back the idle mixture screw out so far that it will start to black smoke on off idle throttle and it still won't return right back to idle.
I can be riding and let off the gas and it will just keep going and slowly returns to idle.

I have tried spraying carb cleaner everywhere while it is running and I can't find a vac leak but it just seems like thats what it is.

I have a clamp on UNI fiter along with the DG exhaust and 200 cylinder. I am running a 110 main jet and it is still to lean at wot. Which makes no since 110 should be big enough for this engine?

This is past the point of getting old I have been battling these idling issues for close to 3 years. I can't happily ride it, it either sky rockets to the moon when I am setting still on a trail or it idles down so low it won't stay running. Which is the exact same thing my old carb did. Thanks for any help.

[tri again]

Now how do those get their timing advance?

Is there any significance to the rusty dust inside the cover that says 'cdi'?

Does anything inside there have to flex or move, like springs
or some plate that's supposed to rotate when revved or backed off?

Does the cdi unit really have some effect on the advance curve?

I forget.

[Yamaha_Rules69]

Assuming your carb is spotless inside ----- The main jet dosent have anything to do with the idle, and raising/lowering the needle clip wont have anything to do with the way it runs at wide open throttle. It may need a larger sized pilot (slow) jet to get the idling correct, assuming you tried adjusting the fuel screw on the bottom of carb out to make it richer. Next you could up the main jet a size or two to see if you can get it to run richer at wot. With the uni, and pipe, you will likely need to go up at least 1 size, like a 115, and see how it runs, but you might want to start rich, at like a 120, see how it runs, and work your way down from there.

[79fordblake]

I can turn the idle mixture screw out to the point that it starts to flood out and runs like crap at idle but it still won't return back to idle after I rev it up.

I have had the cdi cover off and sprayed with pb and made sure everything moves(advancer). I don't think its causing a problem b/c it has lots of power.

I know for sure it needs a bigger main jet. But I will have to order one since I don't have one bigger than a 110. Ill just keep tinkering and report back.

[1984 honda 200s]

just thought id thorw this out--- did you happen to change the o-ring on the carb boot going to the cylinder? i just did mine tonite, made a world of a difference in ideling lol. never have to play with it again now. ohh and for mine...the carb is stock, it has a gutted/rotted exhaust and she would not idel at all with the stock slow jet #35. i just randomly had a #38 from a parts carb, so i threw it in and she purrs away, i dont know why but it does lol!! i wouldnt go higher than the stock main jet... it wont help your idle..

[79fordblake]

I have to have alot bigger main jet than stock. I'm flowing alot more air than a stock 185s. If I had the stock main jet in it right now I would melt the piston completely out of it. As I said above I have a 110 main jet right now and when I do a plug chop at wot, the plug is still turning white.

I think I am goin to get a new intake boot and o-rings. Even though it made no difference when I sprayed carb cleaner all around it while it was running. So far I have tried pretty much everything everybody suggested.

[tri again]

I have to have alot bigger main jet than stock. I'm flowing alot more air than a stock 185s. If I had the stock main jet in it right now I would melt the piston completely out of it. As I said above I have a 110 main jet right now and when I do a plug chop at wot, the plug is still turning white.

I think I am goin to get a new intake boot and o-rings. Even though it made no difference when I sprayed carb cleaner all around it while it was running. So far I have tried pretty much everything everybody suggested.

I thought timing advance hanging up might be it but ...
Please let us know what you find.

[rdlsz24]

Did you get an ebay 200x carb, or a 185s carb? The jetting is not a lot different between the 2, but there is a difference

Rob

[79fordblake]

Did you get an ebay 200x carb, or a 185s carb? The jetting is not a lot different between the 2, but there is a difference

Rob

ebay 200x.

[tri again]

I'm sure you've been thru this so I apologize if this
ain't it.

I was about to do the olympic carb toss after fooling with
a carb and apparently, the 'w' clip that holds
the main needle down into the piston had flipped sideways
so the main needle would settle wherever it wanted
and would never idle right.
It would hang high or die.

I was also wondering if there is a way or a reason
to put a vacuum gauge on these things on general principals.

You say it runs great otherwise so that should rule out
any kind of valve timing or other 'structural' oddity.

[79fordblake]

Yeah I checked that to. I don't know what else could be the problem.:wondering.

I think engine wise everything is ok but I guess I could be wrong. But it runs so great and has tons of power at mid range.

[oscarmayer]

dumb thought, did you adjusthe idle screw on the side of the carb?
did you cleanthe carb and ensure the float needle is not worn. may need a rebuild kit.

[deschlayer]

hold the throttle where you want it to idle then tighten the screw on the on the side of the carb near the top until holds. also the choke on the 200x carb is kind different then what you would think. in the up position it is ON, in the down position it is OFF. even when starting I cant put mine all the way up(I have to use the middle). take the airbox cover off and adjust it there with the choke in the down position. if you can get it to work there then you have some restriction in the frame. stick a coat hanger up the frame and try to fish out a mouse nest

[79fordblake]

It is a brand new ebay carb, but yes I have had it apart to make sure it is clean and I run a inline fuel filter.
Yes I have adjusted the idle screw on the side of the carb and it will be ok for a little bit then it will act up again. I can be riding and let off the gas and keeps going for a little bit then slowly slows down. It can be idling high and I drop it into gear and it idles down low like it should or idles so low it dies or sometimes it doesn't change.

I am not running a air box I have a clamp on air filter directly off of the carb.

[fenderbender713]

Hey this is not really related to your problem, but I am also running a UNI filter right off of the carb, and do you ever have problems with it getting really dirty or wet? I am kind of nervous to go through mud or water with it, because I don't really want to soak my filter.

[oscarmayer]

wait it's a ebay carb? ok that's different than a real 200x carb... those are hit and miss. i have gone through 3 before i found one that was worth a hoot. so it could be you have a problem carb. Trust me I know about chinese carbs. my son races a chionese ATV and i have endless acces to parts and i have to go through 1 or 2 things here or there to get a good one every so often. QC is not ever used in the chinese factories. If it were me, I would have gotten a real decent 200x carb, and a rebuild kit and had at it.it would have been a much more solid carb and been a perfect runner.

anyway, ideling, i think you got your mixture screw wrong. screw it in till it stops. then turn it out 2 turns. the clip should be on the middle of the slide needle.or 2nd from bottom for slight richer.

now once you get it started ok that way, you shoudl eb able to adjsut the idle screw on the side to adjsut the idle speed.

on the bike itself, have you looked at the CDI and ensured the rotor advance springs are not trashed? (under cap that says CDI) have you done a timing chain adjustment? what about checked the valves? these are all things that can attribute to strange engine issues.

one thing it could be is the idle jet is bad, not the right size, or plugged. remember these china carbs they jsut slap togehter if they run out of a specifc size they drop in what ever they have. so you may actually be runnign a idle jet for a 110 vs. a 200cc. yea they can use the same jets too on some carbs. they do that to save $ on machining.

[1984 honda 200s]

ohh another thought from me,, i bet the brass peice on top of the carb where the needle goes threw is much bigger than stock 185...just a thought,, i ruled this out on my 200s, i took a throttle needle off my old moto4 and tryed it on my honda and it made an idle difference big time, bigger needle i guess?.. your 185 needle is probably smaller than that 200x brass peice.

[79fordblake]

ohh another thought from me,, i bet the brass peice on top of the carb where the needle goes threw is much bigger than stock 185...just a thought,, i ruled this out on my 200s, i took a throttle needle off my old moto4 and tryed it on my honda and it made an idle difference big time, bigger needle i guess?.. your 185 needle is probably smaller than that 200x brass peice.


It has the needle in it that it came with.

The top end and mid range on the ebay 200x is a ton better than my stock 185s carb. But at idle this carb has the same problems as my stock carb.

Whenever I figure something out I will let yall know. Right now I'm to busy to mess with it. I'm trying to restore my neighbors D14 Allis-Chalmers and I have to rebuild the transmission on my 1948 A John Deere.

[1984 honda 200s]

i bet when you first push on your throttle it will stumble to? i bet its that brass peice, probably worn out or not the right one, or your needle is not fat enough, sounds kinda chitty to me. i just threw on a cobra exhaust tonite on my 200s, i just mite have problems now too.

[79fordblake]

If it keeps on I may end up throwing my stock carb and ebay 200x carb in the ditch and trying a used real 200x carb. I have been dealing with this problem close to 3 years. Getting kinda old especially when I have alot of other things to do than tinker with a carb all the time.

I have rebuilt many carbs on trucks and tractors and never have a bit of trouble but the 185s has been fighting against me ever since I got it. Its a Honda, they have a mind of there own sometimes, I still wouldn't trade it for nothing I have had alot of fun with it. Sooner or later Ill get it right.:lol:

[oscarmayer]

does it stumble and try to die when you tap the throttle at idle? if so, your pilote jet is too small. the carb is too big for the motor and it's causing too mcuh air to rush past too fast and not enough fuel. get a set of piano wire drill bits (about $3 a set on ebay) and drill the pilote jet out 2 bits bigger than it is now. that usually resovles that issue.

[79fordblake]

I tried a larger pilot jet and it actually made it worse so I put the one it came with back in. Anything I try to do ends up making it worse than it was so I end up putting it back the way it was, this just makes no since.:wondering

[200XMichigan]

It really sounds like an air leak to me. The totally erratic idling, replace the carb O-ring and the boot if needed.

[79fordblake]

Took the 185s out for a ride today. I have the needle set on the 3rd notch from top, turned pilot screw in some and now it idles good and starts easy. If I hold it at or close to wot very long head pipe starts to turn white so its still to lean and I have a 118 jet in it. Now I have to order more jets again.....

[JustEnough]

The slow to return to idle seems to indicate a sticky slide. Taking the cap off and checking how smooth the slide moves is probably in order. If the slide is sticky, I wonder if you could lap it with valve grinding compound or toothpaste? You would certainly want to clean it carefully afterwards. Compare the springs from the carbs you have and try using the stiffest one.


An air leak does sound like a possibility.
I found some O-rings for the intake manifold and carb in the plumbing section of Lowe's for about $1.50 for two. Home Depot probably has similar.

[79fordblake]

It seems the idle problem is fixed for now, not sure what exactly fixed it b/c I did a few things at once. I changed o-rings, changed needle setting and slow jet setting and changed main jets(yeah I know I shouldn't do everything at once but I was a little frustrated with it). Seemed to work out good though. Now that I think of it the last time I changed jets I can't remember now if I used 115 or 118. Ill have to crack it open and see, either way I need to order more jets.

At wot I could look down and tell the head pipe was starting to change colors and I could feel the heat so I backed out and just rode around normally the rest of the day. This thing does have some good spunk to it my girlfriend's 110 can't even stay close to me when I get on it and I have it geared down a little. I'm wondering if the previous owner did something to it besides the 200 cylinder.

Me and my girlfriend rode for most of the day on back country roads on gravel and had a blast. The 185s is running alot better now since I stretched it legs instead of puttin around all the time like I usually do.