1982 Honda ATC 185s I need some of your brilliant feedback on this project

[Adam Seable]

Hello all. I could use some advice on fixing this trike. Just got it for 150 bucks. I have cleaned the carb and adjusted the chain. The bike will not start with the pull. It will start if I roll it down a hill and throw it in gear. This points me to the ignition coil. Not enough zip at low RPM pull rope to spark it. It also stays revved sometimes and won't come back to idle. Could this be part of the coil problem? I have also discovered a leak-- looks like it is coming from the decompression lever on the head. The oil drips onto the pipe and smokes. Is there a seal there that I can replace? See the picture. I originally wanted to fix this trike for the kids to use. After riding it though, I am thinking it might kill somebody-- it is very fast. I will probably sell it when I get it fixed up. I need a few things for it to make it complete. Does anyone out there have a parts bike? The lights are missing, needs front brake cable and hand lever. Needs left side lever and bar clamp. Could really use all new plastics for a full restore-- but I probably won't go that far. I have very little money for this project.120343120344

[fabiodriven]

The first thing that comes to my mind when I hear that a bike needs to be popped in order to start is low compression. You should do a compression test and see what you come up with.

You have to keep in mind that these machines are 25+ years old and most of them need a lot of attention. They can be had for relatively cheap sometimes, but that is because they need a fair amount of TLC. If you're not looking to spend a ton of money than go get yourself a fishing rod or something.

[Adam Seable]

I will check compression. However, would it not be losing power if it had low comp? The thing rips it up as is. Lots of torque and speed. And what about the ignition coil? Could it be that keeping it from starting with pull? Weak coil needs more speed at start up to fire plug enough to get going? Anyone ever run into this issue?

[MonroeMike]

Is your spark plug is new? Good spark?
I had the same problem on my 185, hard to start, but ran great once I got it going. Ended up, I had to adjust my valves.

Test your coil, before you spend money.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?126290-ATC185-200-Service-Data

[Adam Seable]

It does have spark, and a new plug. I thought maybe the spark was too weak for starting but gets stronger at higher RPMs. Can the coil be tested at an auto parts place if I take it in?

Now about your valves: Was your bike just hard to start but ran well once started? I can pull the cord all day without a pop-- not even a backfire. But if I coast it fast down a hill and pop it, it roars to life.

[MonroeMike]

Same thing as yours.

That link I posted has the procedure on how to test your coil. - Page 84.

[1984 honda 200s]

one thing that comes to mind as i had had this problem when i first got my 200s is the primary stator ignition coil located under the fly wheel, cheap fix cost me 25$ Canadian brand new.

[deschlayer]

the coil can be tested with a volt ohm meter. you simply connect one lead to the wire coming off of the stator(near ther pull cord) and the other lead to a good ground. the ohms you have should be within a certain "range". to find that range you must:
1) check the service manual you have downloaded from this site.
- and/or
2) use the search "185s exciter coil ohms" or something to the like.
- and/or
3) If you really try and cant find it I guess I could tell you :D

[haywiremechanic]

The 1982 ATC185s has an automatic compression release that engages when the starter rope is pulled. That's what the cable running from the recoil starter housing to the cylinder head is for. Maybe it's out of adjustment or your engine is a bit low on compression to start with. Check your valve clearances when the engine is cold. Both intake and exhaust should be .002 inch. In my experience they will get tighter as they wear, and too-tight valves are a common cause of low compression on high-mileage Hondas.

I removed the automatic compression release parts from the recoil starter on my 82 ATC185s, and it starts up just fine with a firm pull on the rope.

If your spark will jump a 1/4 inch gap at a fast cranking speed, your ignition is okay.

Throttle not returning to idle means a frayed or kinked/binding throttle cable, throttle cable adjusted too tight or routed wrong and being pulled when handlebars are turned, or gummed up carb/throttle slide sticking.

Hope this helps.

[deschlayer]

also the pilot needle closest to the engine not being out 2 turns can cause the delay(or so i have heard)

[Adam Seable]

Thanks so much for the great ideas; I will try them all. This is networking at its finest! So the valve clearances are for a cold engine then (.002)-- right? I have been looking at the manual for adjusting valve clearance. I am still a bit iffy on where to put the piston for checking. It seems like it is not precise to eyeball the position of the rocker arm. Any tips for finding the right position for a guy who has never done it before?


Also, oil drips from the compression release arm on the head. It dribbles onto the pipe and smokes. Is there a seal there that I can replace, where do I get one, and is it a pain to do it?


Thanks.

[Jammtee]

one other possibility with you idle, is vacuum leak. one of your o rings or maybe a crack in the intake. the lean mixture could also make it hard to start. i have a scratch almost all the way down my truck because of the o ring between the head and intake. i know i shouldn't have rode it but i was drinking. lol. as for the oil leak, yes you can buy that seal. locate you local atv shop. or honda shop. for a temp fix you could remove the comp release and pack it with grease. it will buy some time while locating the seal.

[rbake]

Pull the round caps off (in your first pic) pull the straight bladed plug that is on the engine case right on top of your pull starter. Pull it over slowly until you see the F on the flywheel in the opening and see how tight the rockers are inside the round covers on front and back of your top of head. You should be able to shake them a little. If not, loosen them to specs. Not a bad find for $150, seat pans are rare and bring $100 easy. Also, your front forks are bent back at least 2 inches!! Pull them out straight and it will ride and steer 100 percent better.

[haywiremechanic]

Adam,

Here is a link to a great site with links to downloadable PDF repair manuals: http://www.dansmc.com/shopmanual2.htm

And a link to another page on the above site with a basic online course in motorcycle and ATV repair: http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm

Adjusting the valve clearance on your Honda ATC185s is not an easy task. You will usually need a six-point box end wrench to remove the access caps without damaging them, and the intake is almost inaccessible due to the proximity of a frame rail. It helps to have a .002 feeler blade by itself, removed from the flip out tool, and a very stubby flat blade screwdriver. New O-rings on the access caps are always a good idea. It's a standard o-ring that can be bought at most auto and farm machinery parts stores.

Make sure you are at the top of the compression stroke, not the exhaust stroke when the TDC or F mark is visible. I usually just turn a motor by hand until the valve in question is opened and then shuts, and go about 90 degrees more to be sure it's on the low part of the cam lobe.

It's not rocket science, but adjusting Honda valves is not easy for beginners either. Without the right tools it can be mission impossible.

BTW, you can often find Honda and other OEM special wrenches and tools from the factory toolkit for cheap in the pile-O-tools at a pawn shop. That's where most of my special Honda six-point wrenches and valve adjuster tools came from.

hwm

[EarlyBronocGuy]

Thanks so much for the great ideas; I will try them all. This is networking at its finest! So the valve clearances are for a cold engine then (.002)-- right? I have been looking at the manual for adjusting valve clearance. I am still a bit iffy on where to put the piston for checking. It seems like it is not precise to eyeball the position of the rocker arm. Any tips for finding the right position for a guy who has never done it before?


Also, oil drips from the compression release arm on the head. It dribbles onto the pipe and smokes. Is there a seal there that I can replace, where do I get one, and is it a pain to do it?


Thanks.

Yes, there is an oil seal around the compression release arm shaft. Remove the bolt that retains the shaft, pull out the shaft, use a screwdriver to lever out the old seal, press in a new seal using a socket of about the same diameter, replace shaft and retention bolt. New seals can be found at BikeBandit.com or CheapCycleParts.com.

To adjust the valves, it's a lot easier if you remove the gas tank - gives you a lot more room and much easier to see. Make the engine is cold, remove the spark plug, turn the engine over by hand slowly until you can feel compression at the plug hole, use a soda straw through the hole to verify the piston is at TDC. Remove the large round access plugs on top of the cylinder head to get at the valve adjusters, you should be able to move them very slightly with your fingers. Loosen the locknut, slide an .002 feeler guage between the top of the valve stem and the tip of the adjuster, and turn the adjuster until there is a slight drag on the feeler guage when you pull it out. Once you've got that, tighten the locknut and use the feeler guage again to make sure the adjustment didn't change when you tightend the nut - it make take you a few tries.

On trikes that old, it never hurts to check all the electrical connections for corrosion or loose connections. Remove the ground wire that's connected at one of the coil mounting bolts, clean the terminal and frame down to clean, shiny bare metal, and tighten everything.

Once you get it running and starting well without leaking oil, you can adjust the throttle cable so that it won't open all the way - that's one way to limit power and slow it down for kids.

[KRCosner85]

Does anyone know what direction the flywheel bolt needs to be turned in order to take it off?