I need 225dx help

[mike11743]

Hi guys!! I recently picked up a 1984 YTM225dx and need some info on it. What are common prbolems I should look for? It currently does not run and the guy says that he keeps bending valve anfter valve. I asked him if he timed it correctly and had no idea what he was doing when he rebuilt it. He said that he bought it with a bent valve and then changed the valve and let it idle for about 10 mins and the valve bent again as soon as he gave it gas. This is what he claims. I would think that speed of the engine wouldn't affect it because as the piston moved faster, so would the valves.

So I brought it home and got it all torn apart. The brand new exhaust valve in here was sitting on the piston. The piston and valve both appear to be okay. Basically i think maybe he had the timing off and went to start it and the valve hit the piston and locked up the motor and he didnt want to mess with it anymore. I would think the valve would be bent if the motor had been running when this happened. Does this sound right?

So after tearing it apart, I found that the aluminum collar that holds the camshaft in has a small amount of play. That will be fixed after I do the basics to get this thing running to see if the tranny and rear end and that is all good. But my main concern was that the exhaust valve only opened a tiny bit until I adjusted the bolt on the rocker arm. now it opens about the same as the intake valve, but the adjuster bolt is pretty much bottomed out. Also, the gap between the rocker arm and top of the valve spring on the exhaust side is like half an inch. I measured this by simply lifting up the rocker arm while the tension from the camshaft was not pushing down the spring. I'm sure there is a technical term for this measurement. I can do this to the intake side, but the gap is so small that it would need to be measured with a feeler gauge or something. I would take it as this is not normal and could be what is causing my problems. Or maybe the guy just didnt have it timed right. I wish I would have checked the timing before tearing it all apart lol.

[RubberSalt]

Alright, now that you have the head off.. I'd go and replace the valve guide and valve spring on the intake side. I'd also check to make sure that rocker isn't getting stuck or is gummed up. After that, check the valve spring, it's possible that it's not closing the valve fast enough, and the piston is hitting it.

[YoungJay]

it sounds like it isnt timed right and the piston hitting let us know what happens mate try that rubber said i have a 225dx also no problems yet but the breaks and front fork bent haha.

[mike11743]

thanks for the advice and tips guys. The spring and valve guide look new in addition to the valve on the exhaust side. I would assume they are good, but even new stuff can be bad sometimes. The vavle does not have any visible bends to it, so to make sure that it is still straight, I filled the exhaust port with water, and am getting like a very very small leak. Like a drip per minute coming past the valve. If i tap it with a rubber mallet, the drip goes away. I also cleaned it up with a brass wirebrush. I would say this is probably good to use then? Also i checked the rocker arms and they are moving freely. I am assuming the springs are fine because the valve seems to compress back after turning the camshaft by hand faster than the intake valve. It is also a little stiffer than the intake valve. I would assume this is because the spring is new. Thoughts?

[YoungJay]

im stumped lmaoo

[MonroeMike]

Read the manual for the correct way to set the timing and adjust the valves.
http://72.52.143.80/~trikes/ytm200&225-fm200_clymer_manual.pdf

More.
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?125954-YTM200-YTM200e-YTM225-Service-Data

[RubberSalt]

It sounds like it's good to go, that 1 spring is probably stiffer because it's new. I wounder if the chain tension is letting the chain move where ever it wants. At low RPMs it might not be noticable, but a lose cam chain would change the timing I'd imagine. Go with the manual on checking the train tensioner.

I'd go ahead and replace that intake vavle, other than checking condition for the tensioner, sounds like it's good to go.

[mike11743]

I know that the chain was tight when I pulled it all apart, so I presume the tensioner is doing it's job. I had everything working on the tensioner when I took it apart. That does make sense though.

[mdwohleber56]

timing on these things is a huge pain in the butt. it sounds really simple and easy and when trailprotrailpro doing this u think the same thing. you really have to make sure the chain tensoiner is good because it can feel tight when u push on the chain with trailprotrailpro finger but when u turn it it slips and jumps around. basicly on the top cam head make sure the notches r lined up then when looking throguh the timing window (left side of engine big flat head screw looking plug) and make sure u can c the T in the window when the notches r lined up. and then while making sure everythings still in place tighten the chain tensionerand then give it a pull be4 u put the covers back on to make sure the chain didnt slip.

[mike11743]

well i'll be putting it all together this weekend as soon as my gasket kit gets here. I figure the aluminum cam bushing has very minor play in it, so ill just do that after i get it all timed and back together and hopefully running. I just want to make sure that it can run before putting too much into it.

[muthey]

in my opinion if you think the cam has too much play I would replace it before trying to run it, before it possibly bends another exhaust valve is best too make sure everything is right before you have to tear it apart again

[mike11743]

I have a couple quick questions for someone that is familiar with these trikes,

My headlight does not work when the battery is hooked up. The neutral light lights up, and the starter works, but no headlight or tailight. After looking at the wiring diagram, it looks like the headlight might run off the stator. Is this so?? I would find out myself, but the head is off, so i cant start it. Also what about the tailight. By looking at the wiring diagram, it is obvious that it is run off the battery, but maybe it needs to be running to work. Brand new bulbs and all connectors, grounds, and wires are good.

Another question. Can I run this thing without the starter gear. This is the one on the inside of the case. I plan on doing it eventually as my funds allow.

[muthey]

the head light and tail light both work off the stator, battery is pretty much starting only

[mdwohleber56]

hey mann i have two of these engines im doing overhuals on. now i believe without that lil starter gear u can still start it using the pullstarter or by jumping it, but the electric start will not work if u have it id put it in if u dont id just get one not very exspencive and u really dont wanna keep opening and closing up the engine cases the gaskets will break trust me i know. with the starter gear there is also a metal rod and a silver colar if you dont have those buy a set off ebay. lots of parts for these trikes on ebay or ask some of the people on here i got a guy hooking me up with like $400 worth or parts for 215 bucks that i met threw a post

[mike11743]

I don't have it, but i did find one on ebay. I just got the gaskets today so ill be putting it toghther before the startr gear gets here.

I also have a couple more questions. I the valve clearance values in the service manual, and I am nowhere close. This is the clearance between the rocker arm and the top of the valve when the valve is closed right? I can move my intake rocker arm up like half an inch, nowhere close to the fractions of an inch that it is supposed to be. Obviously i'm either doing something wrong, or something is messed up.

[mdwohleber56]

i havent gotten to that part yet the one cyl. head was in good shape n didnt have to mess with it with the valves just with the timing witch if that was off could bend your valves. look through the timing window for the T and thats where the rocker arm/piston is sapose to be and as long as the notches in the cyl. head and cyl gear sprocket thing are lined up you wont have to worry about the valves getting bent because it sets it for when the rocket/piston is just starting to go down and the valves open on it way down not on its way up.

not sure if this helped but i hope so

[mike11743]

alright guys, I got my new gaskets and put it all together. Got it all timed correctly and whatnot. I turned the motor over by hand like more than 20-30 times and nothing seemed to make noise or contact with anything else. After that, I put the plug in and turned it over a couple more times with the pullstart. I could feel air coming out the exhaust (good sign, means the vavle is opening correctly). I then turned on the fuel to start it up and pulled maybe 5 or 6 times and it locked up again. Never ran, just did this pulling on the pull start. The wierd thing is the motor will spin backwards fine ( with a rachet on the cam sprocket bolt turning to the right) but WILL NOT budge if I turn it over forward (to the left). Any ideas???

[leevarnado]

take the head off and see if the motor turns over freely

[1984 honda 200s]

your doing all this work on the top end but maybe its not the top end? maybe your problem is your bottom end? like i was told before sometimes the main bearings go??? just a thought to consider.

[leevarnado]

yeah thats were i was heading,could be bottom end

[mike11743]

The bottom end was fine when I had the head off. Spins freely, no up and down play, minimal side to side play. If I hold the timing chain over my hand with the cylinder off, I can pull the pull starter and the motor turns over nicely.

[muthey]

that or maybe the head is shot sounds like it's sucking in the valve at a proper torqued pull, did you ever find out why that rocker arm was going way out of whack?, and if you did what was wrong with it, is you cam gear slipping? How are the teeth, is the tensioner not tightening properly, if all else fails I guess order in a new head on ebay, which should solve most of your problems

[mike11743]

All the cam gear and sprockets and tensioner look fine. Everything is tight and not work. My initial thoughts were that maybe it jumped timing and locked up because of that, but the timing is still spot on. I never did find out why the rocker arm was out of whack.

[leevarnado]

try loosening the rockers completely and see if it spins over

[muthey]

so once you had it timed right the rocker moved like it was supposed to or did it still have the play you described, I'm leaning towards you need a new head for it, the jug might be ok but the head needs to be sent off to one of our fine machinists or replaced

[mike11743]

no that rocker still had the play in it

[muthey]

thats what I was figuring , it should not have that play you are going to need a new head, is why it wont start and keeps sucking the valve. You should post a want add on here in the classifieds section, before trying ebay might get lucky and someone just gives you one or you can check with one of the machinists on here and maybe they can do the work on it for a decent price for you, I would offer but since my car accident I'm not able to work for a long while good luck with it

[mike11743]

Another thing, after i loosened up the rocker arm adjusting bolt the motor spun over freely. The only thing is the exhaust valve was not moving. If the bolt is tightened so that the exhaust valve is depressed, the motor locks up.

[1984 honda 200s]

maybe your cam is worn right out or the bushings for the cam? id try another cam or something.... 225moto4 cam works or even a cyl. head from one will work

[mike11743]

Anyone know if a head from a YTM200E will work. It is from an 85 and I can get it for next to nothing.

[muthey]

no it is a little smaller on the sleeve, you can bolt it down and everything but I have a feeling if you run it it will seep oil from the bottom just because of the space around the cylinder and the base. I have a 225 cylinder and and head I will sell you for a decent price, also have the piston as well never been bored

[mike11743]

awesome. How much do you want for it?

[mike11743]

anyone know where to find the part number for the piston to see what size overboer if any it is. All I can find is 29u00 stamped on the inside of the front of the piston.

[leevarnado]

your prob gonna have to measure the piston with a set of calipers.

29U-11631-00-Y0 PISTON STD 70mm
29U-11636-00-00 PISTON 2 O/S 70.50mm
29U-11638-00-00 PISTON 4 O/S 71mm

[mike11743]

i'm coming up with just under 70.00 everywhere on the cylinder and the piston is more like 69.7 but I assume thats stock bore.

[leevarnado]

mike,i have a new std bore wiseco 10:25.1 piston for $75 shipped.pm if your interested.

[mike11743]

So I got this thing all back together with a new piston and used head assembly and Still can not get it to start. Getting good spark and I have fresh gas and along with that I cleaned the whole fuel system. Has good compression also, I cant get my compression checker into the plug hole because I dont have the right adapter but I can drift it down a pretty steep hill and lock up the back wheels. I'm thinking my problem might be with the timing. I timed it according to the process in the owners manual. The only part I got somewhat confused on is all the timing marks on the flywheel. I have a line with "F" ontop, about half an inch from it is a "t" and exactly 180 deg. from that one is another "t" There also is another line with no lettering on it. I lined up the "T" clostest to the "F" and spun the motor over by hand and everything cleared. Do I have the right marks lined up??

[muthey]

It should be lined up with the t by the f, but I wonder if it is the stator, on the original that I have 180deg from the t is a rectangular plate that sticks up, so I wonder why you have another t. I will take some pics for you so you can see what I am talking about.

[muthey]

If yours doesn't look like these something is different about it and maybe try the other t, and see what happens, but be very careful I would hate to see it bed a valve
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa384/bamuth13/Picture314.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa384/bamuth13/Picture312.jpg
http://i1195.photobucket.com/albums/aa384/bamuth13/Picture313.jpg

[mike11743]

well it turns out that my stator has 2 f's with t's next to it. I tried both, and both are at top dead center. I assume one is on the exhaust stroke and one is on the intake stroke. I'm not really that familiar with 4 strokes. Niether of them lined up will fire though. Has to be something with timing or compression though becasue im getting good spark and good fuel.