At my witts end. 330r

[atcmatt]

Hey guys, I am just about ready to give up on my big bore R. A nice reliable 350x is on my watch list! Anyways. If you have been following my build a bit, I have the LRD kit with 38mm airstryker etc etc. It idles fine and goes fine on midrange but it just dies and splutters on top end. I have tried all the jetting changes under the sun but still no luck. Have gone from a 140 main right upto a 190 with no difference in WOT. Still splutters and farts and wont hit its powerband. I then thought it would be the stator. Got myself a nice new 200 watt ricky stator and that still has not fixed the problem.
I tried my old stock carby on the motor (which used to work fine on the standard 85 motor) and it does the exact same thing. Im ruling out a carby problem. I just dont know where to go from here.
Could it be the boyesen reeds I put in it? Maybe the CDI is not upto scratch? Maybe my fmf fatty is to restricting? Who really knows. I am just that peeved about this bike right now! You build something so nice and then the thing wont run right so you cant enjoy it!

Has anyone got any ideas on where I should look next! Please someone help me.

Matt

[bkm]

Try closing the plug gap up and see how it reacts. I went throught the same thing on my 310.

[ceaserthethird]

It's tuff but hang in their, try buying a OEM stator, check your moon key/ woodruff key, CDI , air leaks in boot & the main case.

Compression test!

[BGP]

New high tension lead and plug cap to be sure also. Was it ported? If so, how much was the exhaust raised? Too much and that FMF'll be too long... PT High Rev pipe might get it back. Just thinking "out loud". Another thing, did your base fill up with fuel at any point? Lastly, make sure there isn't water in your float bowl bobbing around your main jet opening.

[Cave Rider]

although you have tried jetting i think it still sounds like it may be the issue,try getting her opened up again and reach down and hit the choke,if it likes it then you are lean and still need to go up. (sorry if you know this stuff already,just some insight) if it does not react to the choke then you may have other issue's. i have also seen the rivets in the flywheel get loose causing timing issues. how about higher compression,did you raise it...if so than you will need to raise the octane in order to resist detonation..good luck man !!!!

[scottp597]

Maybe try... putting a fresh plug in with no gap changes to it. It does sound like a jetting issue

[250rJAMIE]

Hey matt it could be the cdi..Some dude that was at stockton a few months ago on his 85R was doing a similar thing he swapped out the cdi and it fixed it.same with my dads quad I know its a 4 stroke quad but it did a similar thing, we tried playing around with the carby and all turned out it was a faulty cdi.

[bigbadktm]

mine did that same exact thing, but mine turned out to be a jetting issue...

could be an electrical issue as well, have you chased all your wires and make sure there arent any frayed ones?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

It DEFFINATLY sounds like an electrical issue. If you tried all those things to the carb, and the reeds are up to par, then you know it must be electrical related. The best thing to do would be check the wires, then to try a different known good or new ignition coil (to spark plug) If that dosent work, try a known good or new CDI box. I have had issues like this, and in my case, it was the ignition coil. The old one made spark when you checked, and ohmed out okay on the meter, but it must just not have made enough spark at wide open, when the power would really hit, it would sputter real bad, just as you are saying. Good luck, and hope this helps!

[max]

It DEFFINATLY sounds like an electrical issue. If you tried all those things to the carb, and the reeds are up to par, then you know it must be electrical related. The best thing to do would be check the wires, then to try a different known good or new ignition coil (to spark plug) If that dosent work, try a known good or new CDI box. I have had issues like this, and in my case, it was the ignition coil. The old one made spark when you checked, and ohmed out okay on the meter, but it must just not have made enough spark at wide open, when the power would really hit, it would sputter real bad, just as you are saying. Good luck, and hope this helps!

Yama69 is right on here. My bro and I are going through the same thing right now. If and when we figure it out I will post up. We went from one extreme to the other with carb settings and it didnt make a lick of difference. I have even swapped out all electrical components.....nothing. But im really not convinced they were reliable electrical components I swapped with. Find a buddy with a good running R and start swapping. Ive heard of many cases of CDI's going bad causing this exact issue. Good luck!.

ps. If you dont have experience with what this guy is asking for help on. Dont post your wild guess's. You can really throw a guy through some hoops!.

[Billy Golightly]

Gap the spark plug down to about .012. If its breaking up without smoke on the topend I would bet $20 that fixes the problem.

[WIkid500]

I'm with these guys on the spark plug gap. I had a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotr ailpro of a time getting my Moped to run after I put the trizinger cylinder on it and the high comp head. It would fire, puff, smoke and no run. Got pi$$ed off and smashed the spark plug darn near shut and it runs like a champ. The old yammi is one mean pulling moped, it just was being a cock to get running. I'm thinking the 190 psi of compression has something to do with how it likes a small gap on the plug.


Good luck, that 330 should be fun when you get her running.

[bkm]

Gap the spark plug down to about .012. If its breaking up without smoke on the topend I would bet $20 that fixes the problem.

Thank you. If you have never dealt with a big bore before, its not like chasing this issue on a stock type engine. The big bores will blow the spark out in the upper range all day long regardless of jetting. I run mine right around .015-.018 on my race gas 310.

[ezmoney1979]

Thank you. If you have never dealt with a big bore before, its not like chasing this issue on a stock type engine. The big bores will blow the spark out in the upper range all day long regardless of jetting. I run mine right around .015-.018 on my race gas 310.

This is probably explaining why I couldnt get my T3s 310 to pull on the topend a few weeks ago. At the time I thought it was jetting but the more I think about it, this is it. I have very high compression also.

[bkm]

This is probably explaining why I couldnt get my T3s 310 to pull on the topend a few weeks ago. At the time I thought it was jetting but the more I think about it, this is it. I have very high compression also.

Way back when I put my ESR Pro-X 310 on my '86, it went from a completely healthy running 250 to the 310 in a matter of hours. All I changed was the cylinder and carb jetting to what ESR recomended as a starting point. It would idle like a champ, free rev all day long and putt throught the mid range like it was on fire, but the second I went past half throttle it would break up, pop, and fall on its face. I chased my tail for days.

Finally at my wits end I called ESR and explained the problems I was having. He recomended closing the gap, then holy cow, you had better been holding on to it or it would rip your elbows out of the sockets. All the hair pulling over plug gap.

[atcmatt]

Thanks very much guys. This leaves me with a few things to check. Ill start with the simplest first, being the spark plug gap. Ill gap him right down and then see what happens from there. I guess then after Ill buy a brand new CDI. I just hope I can get this thing running properly soon! My patience is wearing thin! No wonder I have always been a 4 stroke guy haha. Anyhow, cant beat a good running 2 stroke. Thanks very much for all the replies.

Matt

[bkm]

Thanks very much guys. This leaves me with a few things to check. Ill start with the simplest first, being the spark plug gap. Ill gap him right down and then see what happens from there. I guess then after Ill buy a brand new CDI. I just hope I can get this thing running properly soon! My patience is wearing thin! No wonder I have always been a 4 stroke guy haha. Anyhow, cant beat a good running 2 stroke. Thanks very much for all the replies.

Matt
Every cdi I have had go bad on me has either worked or it didn't. There was no intermitent problem at a certain rpm. Both times I would be riding and it would just quit all together. Both that have went bad produced either no spark or a very weak orange spark, not the bright blue that a good one makes.

Let us know what you come up with. When you get it all lined out it will be hard to wipe the ear to ear grin off your face.

[atcmatt]

Well I couldnt wait till tomorrow so I just just threw the carby back on and regapped a plug to what billy specified and it is still doing the same thing. Im going to just lash out and buy a new CDI. I already have that much money into this bike whats a few more hundred gonna matter. After this I have no idea what to do, maybe I change the reeds? Maybe I get another pipe. Who knows. There are so many variables that It nearly makes it impossible to pinpoint it.

Thanks.

Matt

[bkm]

Damn, I would have been willing to bet the farm that that would have taken care of the problem.

[atcmatt]

Yeah I was hoping it would be something simple like that. Never is for me! Looks like you owe me 20 dollars Billy! My paypal acc is ....... hahah. Now onto ebay to find a CDI. Any suggestions?

[ceaserthethird]

Anything Electrical I order OEM New, I recommend OEM New.

[WIkid500]

Try a stock set of reeds. My moped did not like the boysens that I put in it. Back to running the metal stock reed plates until I can find something better. It's something you should be able to try without spending a bunch of money.

[Mosh]

Personally, I would like to know what compression you guys are running?
Max you told me you guys were at like 220..That is too high..

I still say that too much will pre ignite the fuel mix under load and hi demands.
I can't believe that this is the 3rd Big bore R kit I have heard of running this way, this year alone, and watched guys swap carbs, jetting and electrical to no avail..
I am starting to think there is a base engine mechanical issue related on all these big bores with this high RPM break up problem.

[bigbadktm]

making me lean more and more to a stock cylinder even though i really want a 310

[ceaserthethird]

Details needed on top end - 330R,

NEW or USED cylinder ?

Did LRD do the porting ?

What was it ported for Low , Mid , Top ?

Is it a ESR Cylinder, PRO-X ?

If LRD did the Porting it will have a Engraved Number ?

Did u break in the motor ?

What Needle are you running ?

Main & Pilot Jet's ?

What is your Compression Cold & Hot ?

What Type of Fuel are you running ?

LRD closed the door's and are no longer in Business, Now it's LED performance

[Dirtcrasher]

Seems to be easier to improve upon and tune a stock motor with mods than it does with these big bores............................

Just my opinion.

[Billy Golightly]

What type of plug are you running? I am not a fan of the EG (fine wire) type plugs but some peopel swear by them. It definitely appears to be electrical from teh sounds of it to me. The higher compression levels require a perfectly operating and working electrical system for the spark to not be blown out of the gap at higher RPMs and under a load. Have you re-painted the frame, is your ground connection good and clear?

Have you done a leak down test?

[atcmatt]

The details on my motor are little known to me. I bought it with minimal hours on it, I know nothing about the cylinder. I just thought it was made by LRD. it has LRD engraved on it with the numbers 12771096. Maybe its an ESR head with LRD porting on it, it does have an esr top dome and esr radiator outlet. What do you think. I am just running a normal looking piston, its not a wiseco or anything. To me it looks like the one that comes with the kit. It has not yet been run in, most probably ony 6 hours on the top end, its to hard to break it in when it is running so horrid. Im running a 175 main jet currently and a 45 pilot, im using the stock needle that comes with the 38mm airstryker. I have not yet done a compression test as I dont have a tester. I have tried both 98 octane and 95 octane fuel. Both do the same thing.

I have tried a ngk br8es and a br9es. My frame has been powdercoated, i have scratched off around the green ground wire (this is what your talking about?) and Im guessing its getting a good earth. Where the hell do you start with these bad boys, I guess you just change one thing at a time and see if it makes a difference. Also, I am using a stock carb to cylinder boot, the carb is tight up in there, maybe I need a bigger one of them?

[bcredneck]

i rember reading the instuctions that came with a wiseco kit it said to widen the ring gap with a file on high prefomance applications i have no clue about this but it seams like you checked every thing else

[Mosh]

Lets get some basic things out of the way..

First, is the carb slide opening all the way?

Second, 45 pilot and 175 main are going to be too lean for that 330 IMO..48 and 185 would be a better starting point.

3rd, the fact you bought this engine used with low hours leads me to believe that the seller was having that issue as well. That is why I woul like to know compression readings.

What year CDI box does your R have? 85 0r 86

The 85 has one round plug at the CDI and will not swap with any other year.

The 86 will have 2 plugs sometimes and can be swapped with the TRX 250R's CDI..
ALSO...Some 350X Cdi's will plug into the 2 plug harness. The trike will run, but run like crap.It won't rev out at all.

If you have the 2 plug CDI set-up, you need to find the numbers on it. You should see (HA2) in the numbers.That is the number designation for the 250R electrical.
If you see a (HA5) on the CDI it would be from a 350x and will not run correctly..That(HA5) is the 350X electrical and model designation number

I remember 3 leggeddog having this same issue on his trike.
Check those first before you go ordering parts.

[atcmatt]

Yeah its an 85 cdi with the single plug. The cdi will be the next thing i replace. Im going to try some stock reeds and see if that makes a difference. What sort of compression should i be looking for? Thanks.

[ceaserthethird]

Ok first Call Arlan at LED Performance, He has all the Record's for LRD Cylinder's ( He's the Founder of LRD ) Now it's LED.

Arlan - 503-522-2465 Pst. 10am - 6pm Mon-Fri

He's a really nice guy, Tell him you got one of his Cylinder's and would like to know what type of Port work it has ?

Also explain your problem, Than Ask him What Needle he recommend's for that motor.

Arlan cylinder's will run on RACE FUEL, Most work from him will need RACE FUEL VP 110 Octane

Now You NEED to BUY a Compression Test kit at your LOCAL Auto Part's Store,( Take A Cold Compression Reading Than ride your bike around and get it HOT take another Compression Reading ! )

Compression Test - tip's Remove your GAS TANK, CHOKE ON , HOLD the Throttle Fully OPEN while KICKING over, 10-15 kick's till it stop's moving.

Write down the Reading, wait 5-10 minutes and see if it lost any compression. Write it down.
Same Step's when you do a HOT Compression Test .

Report Back with Info !

[atcmatt]

I will have to wait till later tonight to give him a call because of the time difference here in Aussie. Ya know you americans are behind...lol. Ill try find me a compression tester too. Will keep you posted.

Matt

[atcmatt]

Ah I cannot figure out how to call to the states. I may just email him though it would be good to talk to him over the phone.

[atcmatt]

Well this afternoon I gave the carb a good cleaning and blowout, changed the jets to 190 main and 50 pilot, changed back to the stock reeds and it still did the same thing. It pretty much can only be the CDI, compression (to low) or maybe my fuel is not a high enough octane. Im thinking the pipe couldnt really make it do something like this?

[NOS_350X]

Personally, I would like to know what compression you guys are running?
Max you told me you guys were at like 220..That is too high..

I still say that too much will pre ignite the fuel mix under load and hi demands.
I can't believe that this is the 3rd Big bore R kit I have heard of running this way, this year alone, and watched guys swap carbs, jetting and electrical to no avail..
I am starting to think there is a base engine mechanical issue related on all these big bores with this high RPM break up problem.


All the 250r's i build are in the 200 PSI range up to 230. been doing it for several years. They all seem to run perty dam good LOL.

[Mosh]

All the 250r's i build are in the 200 PSI range up to 230. been doing it for several years. They all seem to run perty dam good LOL.
Well that may work for you, but you may be at a lower sea level reading. That causes static compression to be higher than somewhere else on the planet.

Whatever the case, static compression will not provide uncorrected compression readings, but can give an idea if it is too high for the best performance.
Typically, any overly high compression 2 stroke engine suffers on the top end.

For me and around here, those 200+ readings are too high, and take away from reliability IMO.

But arguing what works and what does not is mute..
The point of my compression question is to actually do a simple baseline compression test on this guy's particular engine so we can rule out base engine mechanical problems.


So..Do you have any ideas that will help this guy, since you have such a vast working knowledge of high compression engines?

[NOS_350X]

300ft above sea level, or at sea level here. And im sure not having realibitly issues, except keeping head gaskets/ o-rings in them.

Lean the M-Fer out, 140-150 main, Good chance he will tost the engine, but if it runs good rules out spark.

[KASEY]

i guess if i was in your shoes i would start at the bottom and work up. since you really don't know much about the motor,,i would first off pull it down and put a new set of crank seals in, that way you can check the crank bearings at the same time. that would eliminate one source of hidden problems . put new gaskets in to eliminate any possible air leaks, check the end gap on the rings and condition of the bore and piston, then check compression level so you know what octane you need to be running. there are so many variables that i really can't suggest jetting.. carb setting are all over the place and i would just say go big and start from there. eliminating the hidden problems really helps . try a different brand of plug and different gaps. i could like alot of others try to tell you what i am running,, but thats really useless information to you. when i moved from washington to arizona mnone of my 2 strokes ran worth a crap down here,, so that just reinforces the fact that you can't jet over the internet, good luck i hope you can solve your problem,,

[KASEY]

And im sure not having realibitly issues, except keeping head gaskets/ o-rings in them.

LOL!!! that makes alot of sense!!! Explain how you can have any reliability if you can't keep a gasket from blowing????

[atcmatt]

I already said I went right down to a 140 main with no difference. Im convinced it is not jetting. When I bought the motor I tore it right down and put in new gaskets through the whole thing. Everything looked and felt fine, it has had a new crank and rod put in at some stage, piston is very fresh. I just need to do a compression test this weekend and see how I go. Otherwise I might just go back to the stock piston and cylinder. Would the 38mm stryker be to much for a stock motor?

Matt

[NOS_350X]

LOL!!! that makes alot of sense!!! Explain how you can have any reliability if you can't keep a gasket from blowing????


You can change one in about 10 minutes, and there cheap. I get enough time out of them to make it worth wile for the power gain.

[NOS_350X]

The other thing to check is the head gasket/o-ring, run it some get it to the point where it sputters several times. Then check your radiator, If there is foam, thats the problem.