carrier install questions, 86 250R

[dma550]

Hey guys

My carrier, probably with original bearings, blew out on last week's ride. It won't turn and periodically locks the rear tires. I can see ooze and play on each side. Bah.

Anyhow, I bought a carrier which looks like a Rad twin row with all-balls bearings. I am starting the tear down now, and with shop manual in hand, I see there are O-rings required but not present on my carrier. Do I have to source them from Honda separately? Can anyone think of anything else I need to get while I'm tearing down?

This is the carrier I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Axle-Axel-Bearing-Carrier-ATC250R-ATC250-ATC-250R-250-R-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eb1159719QQitemZ20053 9477785QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

It now looks like it has the seals, I am wondering if they replace the "O-rings" Honda shows.

Right now I am having a bish of a time getting the axle hub bolts off. Even with my 400FT-LB impact, they are laughing at me. I doused them with PB last night and am crossing my fingers.

Does anyone have a good DIY guide to this, or is the fact shop manual the best? Thanks, looking forward to being on three wheels once again, I hate when my stuff is broken.

[leviblue]

it's ready to bolt in as it sits, no new o-rings needed. it's pretty easy to do. as for the hubs comming off eat your wheaties....

[Mosh]

Before you take anything apart, put the trike in gear and have someone sit on it holding the brakes. Break your axle nut loose first, next to the brake rotor.
Then you want to use a cheater bar and socket on the hub nut to bust it loose. You only have to take the right side wheel hub off. The axle slides out the left side, so you really dont need to take the left hub off.
Use waterproof grease on the carrier before you install it. You will also need snap ring pliers for the brake bracket snap ring.

[dma550]

got my nuts off ;) PB Rostoff and 450ft lbs to the rescue.

[dma550]

Thanks guys, 1 more thing... are you sure about the o-rings? I see them in the tech docs, and they are what's hanging out of my carrier now that it's failed.

109502

[Dirtcrasher]

Guys say you don't need them. If I didn't run o-rings my carrier, it would be full of mud and water.

Why use the pinch bolt seals and not the carrier seals? Unfortunately, aftermarket carriers aren't made to accept o-rings.......

We don't all ride in the sand, some of us see mud/water/snow etc. :D

[SWIGIN]

20 plus years riding here and trust me you do not need those O rings. In fact aftermarket carriers don't have o ring groves in them at all. Just grease it up and slide it in.

[Dirtcrasher]

Aaaaaaaaaaand the o-rings keep the grease in and crap out.

When crap gets in the carrier, guys use punches, chisels, long screwdrivers etc to adjust the chain. I like mine to turn like handlebars :D

You and Kasey can run your AM carriers without o-rings all you want but I'll keep things sealed up the best I can until the parts are gonezo :lol:

[SWIGIN]

No, water will find it's way in with or without the rings. But if you use the rings it seals the water in. I have had no problems since I stoped using the o rings.

[leviblue]

when I got the new lonestar it didn't have the o-rings. I called and they were puzzled. My other dbl row was the same way. I switch swingers (plus 2) on my MXer quite often and have never seen or had any problems. Not saying it wasn't crapy in there but the grease did it's job well. But thats me I ride mine ALOT in dirt, mud,water,sand,coaldust and rip it down once a month. Now I have taken out stock carriers that look like it has clay packed in it.

[dma550]

cool, thanks guys :) Much appreciated. I need to put the wheels back on to break one of the axle nuts free, it's really on there!

[dma550]

got it all apart. What a stinky exploded mess. The bearings on one side are all out of the race, the race is in about 4 pieces. My guess is this is the originals. Not bad for 24 years old.

[dma550]

Hey, 1 question if anyone has time to answer or look at their axle. I have a small spacer between the locking collar and the disk hub, does anyone else have anything there? On an 86 it appears that there is disk hub then threaded splined collar, then locking nuts, then snap ring. Does anyone else have a spacer in there? It is making me only able to grab 1/8" of splines on the locking sleeve. My gut tells me to pull the spacer off.

[leviblue]

I don't have one on any of mine then again I'm not using the stock hub lock. But I haven't seen it before. I could be wrong though. Pull it off and see what happens

[dma550]

Here's a pic, I am holding the spacer over where it was. And yes, before you ask, I am a hand model.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9020/img0419h.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/i/img0419h.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Mosh]

I have seen that before..Many times, people will put a spacer there for 2 reasons.

1) They are trying to make up for slack in the bearings,,which dont work.

2) the threads on the collar are stripped and they put that there to push the collar further into the outer nut so they can tighten it on better threads.
Also the collar nut with the sleeve on it will have thread damge too sometimes. You have to check them. If it wont tighten down snug, you will need a new sleeve and outer nut.

Usually the threaded collar threads are worn out on one side.
You can unscrew and flip that collar around and use the other end, so the outer nut will have better threads to grab.

That skinny nut should tighten down against the outer nut..Not the brake hub.

[dma550]

Thanks guys, and thanks Mosh. Yeah, the skinny nut is just sitting there free right now. The outer nut is in good shape, I'll bet you're right about someone trying to get some more squeeze on the carrier assembly. Without it the splined threaded collar gets some spline, with it it does not, it spins, which defeats the whole thing. I should post some pics of the little pile of chunks of bearing I found in there.

You guys rock, thanks for posting and helping us along.

[Dirtcrasher]

I don't know about the 250r, but the 350X had a small collar that slipped over the clip and it was necessary. Then they incorporated it into the nut.

Your pic shows an area where there shouldn't be any spacer.

If it's just a spacer, like Mosh said , it could have been just to use the wrong parts and make them fit.

One thing I'll add is you were worried about it barely catching the splines. Those splines are for the brake rotor, even if that nut catches a little portion of them, it merely tightens the axle to the bearing; It won't shear off. If it makes the nut useless, something is cobbled on there............

But, sounds like you have it straightened out; Just don't use a screwdriver to hold the rotor :D