Big problem! help please

[bigboy_toy85]

ok.. so i was riding my 85 250es tuesday night.. and i was just cruisin in low 5th gear.. and the 3 wheeler started to bog down (felt like it was flooding out kindof) so i down shift to bring the RPM's back up to clear it out.. and when i down shifted it backfired extremely bad and then i heard a repetitive fast tapping noise, then the 3 wheeler shut down completely.. so i was sitting there trying to kick start it and it still had perfect compression and it felt like it should be starting, it was even coughing like it was about to start. but it wouldnt. so we pull it with a four wheeler and i try to start it that way, and its doing that coughing sound like its trying to start but it wont start.. the starting noise will get faster the faster you pull it, but slows down as soon as you slow down. I checked the spark plug and its fine, its getting spark, the carb is working just fine, its getting air, its getting fuel, and it has compression...

Now what could this be? please any help is appreciated..

(sorry for the novel i just wrote)

[dksix]

Have you checked to see if the cam/timing? Maybe broken cam or jumped time.

[bigboy_toy85]

no, i havent checked that.. when we looked at it it was about 1 in the morning.. how would i check that?

[dksix]

Not sure on that exact engine but most Honda 4 strokes have caps in the head where you adjust the valves. You could pull them and see if the valves are moving by watching the rocker arms while you turn over the engine. If they are moving then the timing chain is turning the cam and the cam isn't broken. Then to check the timing you would need to look at all the timing marks, on the flywheel and cam sprocket. I don't know enough about your bike to tell you from there but I'm sure it is clearly outlined in the service manual. You can download it here http://72.52.143.80/~trikes/Manuals/ATC%20manuals/ and several other places that are found in the World Class Help section about the 9th thread down. The manual is your best friend, and they can be downloaded for free. Hope this helps

[ailll1]

You checked if it still has fuel in it right? Sometimes, even if there's still some in the tank it wont get into the carb. No fuel = really lean condition = may cause backfires
And, maybe you know but, these trikes need to be in neutral to start, so if you pull start it, it wont start unless you go from 1st gear to neutral.

[bigboy_toy85]

thanks man.. that helps alot!!! i dont know anything about my engine, but i guess its time to learn..

its acting like its getting everthing great, its just not keeping it. its hard to explain what its doing, but my friends dad is somewhat knowledgable about small engines and he cant explain or begine to explain why its not running.. im hoping its the timeing.. im just afraid to find out what made that horrible tapping noise.. cause i cant afford to do much to it right now..

[bigboy_toy85]

You checked if it still has fuel in it right? Sometimes, even if there's still some in the tank it wont get into the carb. No fuel = really lean condition = may cause backfires
And, maybe you know but, these trikes need to be in neutral to start, so if you pull start it, it wont start unless you go from 1st gear to neutral.
its got about a 1/4 tank of gas in it.. and ive always been able to pull start it by putting it in third, holding the shifter up while someone pulls me then just dropping it and it starts..

[dksix]

I don't know much about engines either, just trying to get you going in the right direction. Noises inside the engine are scary and normally bad news (mostly caused by neglect and poor maintenance). Properly maintained the Honda 4 strokes last forever. I hope you had oil in it, always check your oil before riding!

[wisconsinite]

i had a honda dirt bike as a kid, xl185s, did kinda the same thing. turned out the exhaust valve stuck open and the piston hit it and bent it. got a new valve, put it back together, but it wouldn't stay running because the timing sprocket on the crank was damaged. never did get it fixed :(

[dksix]

i had a honda dirt bike as a kid, xl185s, did kinda the same thing. turned out the exhaust valve stuck open and the piston hit it and bent it. got a new valve, put it back together, but it wouldn't stay running because the timing sprocket on the crank was damaged. never did get it fixed :(

A bent and partially open valve will show as low compression most times, won't it?

[bigboy_toy85]

I don't know much about engines either, just trying to get you going in the right direction. Noises inside the engine are scary and normally bad news (mostly caused by neglect and poor maintenance). Properly maintained the Honda 4 strokes last forever. I hope you had oil in it, always check your oil before riding!

thanks.. i really appreciate it.. and i always keep it well maintained.. i had actually replaced the oil and oil filter a week ago before riding, and i only rode about an hour, and my 3 wheeler burns a little oil but not bad,.. so i know it had plenty of oil.. it is an all original 1985 3 wheeler though.. it was running like a top before it died though.. i hope its nothing bad..

and wisconsinite: is that a hard part to fix or check.. it was definetly a metal to metal noise it made.. ive never had it make a backfire as big as it did, so that seems like it could be something to do with it possibly..

[RodKnockRacing]

You may have busted the cam chain that could of been the noise you heard

[Ironbnder]

You checked if it still has fuel in it right? Sometimes, even if there's still some in the tank it wont get into the carb. No fuel = really lean condition = may cause backfires
And, maybe you know but, these trikes need to be in neutral to start, so if you pull start it, it wont start unless you go from 1st gear to neutral.

Thats funny.... The starter will not work due to a neutral safety switch. That has nothing to do with the engine fireing.

[ailll1]

Are you sure you put your oil filter on the right side? Putting it backwards will block oil and your head wont get any at all. I've heard it can smoke your head really fast.

[wisconsinite]

A bent and partially open valve will show as low compression most times, won't it?

oh, duh. guess i didn't read original post close enough. yeah, mine had pretty much no compression.

[bigboy_toy85]

You may have busted the cam chain that could of been the noise you heard if it was the cam chain would the engine still be rolling over when i try to cick start it?

and to ailll1 the filter is in correctly i believe.. ive never had a problem with it..

[RodKnockRacing]

if it was the cam chain would the engine still be rolling over when i try to cick start it?

and to ailll1 the filter is in correctly i believe.. ive never had a problem with it..

Yeah the crank will still turn, but the cam and valves wouldnt