another froze swinger bolt thread!!! OH NOES!!!!

[JasonB]

hahahah it seems to be a comon theme with me. My 83R had a frozen bolt that I think we put quite a few tons from the press on and tweaked the frame a little before it budged. Now my 86R that Im doing a frame up restore on is laughing at me from the gayrage with a froze up swing arm bolt. I hit it with 120 psi last night and it spins freely but has no side to side play. I pounded on it but need to get my sledge out. Thoughts on how to free it up? dont have a press at my house either :*(

build thread coming soon by the way. ordering parts NOW

[ceaserthethird]

Brake fluid, works wonders but let it soak for a day or so.

Large sledge hammer, will help !

Keep us posted

[tundrawillie]

Kroil works well.

[ATCrider42]

I just did my swingarm bolt on my 200x. Had to strip it down to the frame and take it to a shop with a press. they cut the "head" off the bolt to press it out without bending the frame. I tried hitting and soaking it and everything I could before I took down to the frame and had it pressed out. It wasn't too bad taking it all apart. The problem was all the crappy bolts and threads I had to deal with. I spent a small fortune in new bolts and nuts because some idiot got their hands on the machine before me and thought they knew how to play mechanic.

[rdlsz24]

I had to cut mine out with a sawzall on my 200x

Rob

[atctim]

Jason - we always end up cutting them out with a sawz-all. it is the easiest - but is still tough to get into the bolt without messing up the frame and or swinger.

[ATCrider42]

ya I was looking at mine wondering how the F**k people cut theirs out. I can see how easy it would be to cut into the swingarm or frame. Not to mention your gonna mess up the rubber caps there too. I ended up reusing one of mine and it saved me $10.00 and another week waiting for parts.
P.S. rdlsz24........nice 200x. That thing is mint. All original too isn't it? Is your swingarm polt in backwards though? it looks like the head of the bolt is on the chain side.

[JasonB]

lol sawzall NOOOO!!!!!! dont want to take that route. Atc-Enrique has 2 to use, but I just dont want to drive the bike an hour to press a bolt out. I SOAKED it in penetrating oil last night before bed. I will use a heavy dose of brake fluid too and see what I get. Also going to take a few swings with my sledge when i find the damned thing lol

[Mosh]

I tip the trike on the side with the nut off, and hose that thing down with the best penetrant you have for a day or so.
Spin the bolt with the impact from time to time and re apply penetrant so it runs down the bolt shaft..

Then grab the air hammer and a punch bit and lay on that thing..I have a 20 inch long punch bit also that will go throw the whole swinger. Once you get them moving some go back and forth with it while using penetrant..
They come out everytime for me..even the ones I thought had to be cut..

[JasonB]

my air hammer is broked!!!!! CRAP!!!! may just go invest. who knows, going to pour everything i can think of on it tonight.

[dksix]

A 50-50 mix of ATF and Acetone mix is an excelent penitration fluid. Here's a link but I think the test was actually done by popular mechanics or someone like that. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/tech-tips/55/
So you deal with a lot of rusty nuts? Go down to the hardware store and buy some acetone, a quart of Dexron Mercon and a refillable spray bottle. In the spray bottle mix the ATF and acetone in a 1:1 mixture.

Spray away and get your nuts loose!

Independent testing of penetrating oils using a single steel bar with 1/2”x20 nuts torqued to 50 ft/lbs and treated with a 10% salt water solution that was allowed to rust. Listed are the chemicals and required removal torque.

-None ………………… 516 pounds

-WD-40 ……………… 238 pounds

-PB Blaster …………. 214 pounds

-Liquid Wrench ….. 127 pounds

-Kano Kroil ………… 106 pounds

-ATF-Acetone mix….53 pounds

[atc007]

Very cool,,will have to try that! That's a new one on me!

[RodKnockRacing]

I cut mine out of my 200x without hurting anything

[Yamaha_Rules69]

I used a BIG sledge hammer on mine after soaking it for weeks in all the different penetrating oils listed. This was on my 84 R. In the end, I layed the frame on its side, and used a BEEFY solid rod as a punch - about the same diameter as the bolt. You will need an assistant to hold the rod with a vise grip or two clamped together, to make sure you dont acidently demolish their hand. Give it a accurate, but powerful smack, and it will eventually come out. The thicker rod is better than a skinny punch, because it will allow for a lot harder hit. After you get the bolt flush with the frame, drive it home with a thicker punch. Also, the mixture listed above about the 50/50 mix is truely a great mix. You can actually see it going to work on the rust as soon as it hits it. The mix is actually supposed to be a mix of 50% acetone, and the other 50% is Power steering fluid. The author of the article spoke out somewhere, and said he was mistaken, and it is supposed to be power steering fluid instead of trans fluid. GOOD LUCK!

[Iprefer3]

What I do is thread the nut back to where it sits flush with the end of the swinger bolt after being drenched with wd40. Then I find a strong bolt that fits in the ID of the swinger bolt. Get my short handle sledge give it a couple of good wacks....and they come out everytime.

[oscarmayer]

I've replaced about 2 dozzen swing arm bearings on these old honda, and i have YET to be able to bang one otu with a sledge no mater what I spray or soak it with and no matter how long. the best tool I ever used was an sawsal with the metal cutting blade. do it right and it cust w/o but a few minor scratches to the frame. those can be repainted over and then install new bolt and sleeve and bearings. 1-2horus later your back riding. if not you'll spend hours or days trying and failing. I used a 16lb sledge with fiber gladd handle on all of them first and none worked. the last 3 i just cut after 4 taps with the sledge. the reason they get stuck is honda was not smart enough to make the spacer sleeve thinner walled so the bolt was smaller in it and rust would not cause them to weld together like it does.

[Iprefer3]

Arizona bikes don't rust out too much so that might be the difference I don't know. All I can say is what's worked for me. Sorry u could not get them out my way

[rdlsz24]

P.S. rdlsz24........nice 200x. That thing is mint. All original too isn't it? Is your swingarm polt in backwards though? it looks like the head of the bolt is on the chain side.

Thanks man. They are original parts, but all from different bikes lol. Does it matter which way the bolt goes through? I guess I do have the head on the chain side. It was so long after I cut the old one out and put the new one in that I didn't remember which way it went, and figured it didn't matter. Next time I pull it out to grease it I will flip it around.

Rob

[Dirtcrasher]

If I have to cut one off, I measure the frame width inside 1st, then use a auto scissor jack to spread it a hair and use a sawzall; Then deal with it in a press.

Once removed, put another bolt back in and pull the frame in, trust me, it will spread and come right back..........

[Xhumeka]

Those bolts sure can be a major PITA.

Just finished reading this thread - seems us trikers are not the only ones with this problem: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11606512

I don't understand why the guy had to cut the swingarm with the sawzall before cutting the bolt... I've sawzalled out a few swingers and never had to damage the swinger.

[Dirtcrasher]

He should have removed the motor and used a sawzall or cut off wheel on it. He ruined the swingarm; Maybe he had a spare?

[ATCrider42]

F.Y.I. the reason the bolts seize in there so bad is because the sleeve is aluminum and the bolt is steel. Those two metals don't age well together. Just ask any metal man. It's common knowledge that you don't put aluminum and steel right next to each other, they will seize into one eventually.
So depending on how much your bolt and sleeve have seized together depends on how hard it's going to be to remove. So every bolt is probably a little different in how much pressure it will take to remove it after sitting for X amount of years with X amount of grease.

[JasonB]

bought an air hammer for my compressor. I dont know wtf but those things aren't as effective as I once imagined they would be. It successfuly wedged the punch bit into the bolt but didnt budge crap. attempting to return the air hammer tonight lol

Going to just finish stripping EVERYTHING off the bike and have it just swinger and frame and see if I cant find a local with a press we can use to smash it out. I dont even havea suitable bench vice that would press out small sawzalled chuncks of bolt out of a swinger removed via sawzall :(

[ATCrider42]

I took mine down to the frame and swinger. It's not as bad as it seems, especially after spending abunch of time on your own to hammer it out. You should have listened to "oscarmayer" when he said he's never got one out with a hammer. I have seen few people post here who actually had that work themselves. Once I got my ATC apart and in to a machine shop they had to cut the head off the bolt so the press wouldn't bend the frame. That means I had to find a new bolt.......NOT EASY FOR ME cuz I have a 84 200x.

[Jerm1179]

you can get 1st gen 200x swingarm bolts from any dealer.... about 90 bucks

[rdlsz24]

F.Y.I. the reason the bolts seize in there so bad is because the sleeve is aluminum and the bolt is steel. Those two metals don't age well together. Just ask any metal man. It's common knowledge that you don't put aluminum and steel right next to each other, they will seize into one eventually.
So depending on how much your bolt and sleeve have seized together depends on how hard it's going to be to remove. So every bolt is probably a little different in how much pressure it will take to remove it after sitting for X amount of years with X amount of grease.

Yep this is what happens. I now use the pieces welded together by corrosion as a steel punch lol.

Rob

[ATCrider42]

I didn't even ask a Honda dealer if they could get the swingarm bolt for me. I just assumed they couldn't get it. I ended up buying a used on on ebay for $25 that was in perfect condition. Some how somebody got the bolt out without even having to hit it cuz this bolt had NO hit marks or anything on it. You could tell it was used from the caked on grease but after cleaning it up it was in perfect shape; I was very lucky.

[Yamaha_Rules69]

Atcaddict, if you got the punch stuck in there, you are using way too small of a tool. You need somthing beefy, that wont give under a heavy blow. That skinny punch will likely get stuck in there under a heavy hit, get bent, then break off inside the bolt. The bigger the sledge hammer the better in this situationalong with a thick solid rod for a punch. I dont know how much the sledge I used on my R weighed, but it is HEAVY, at least 30 lbs I would say, and took about 100 hits to finally get it out - after soaking. If you hit it enough times, and hard enough, it WILL come out. I mentioned it before, but have an assistant hold the punch with a visegrip and hit it as hard as you can with a heavy, long handled sledge.

[JasonB]

Yamaha rules, I am not using a 'punch', i was using an air hammer with a hardened steel bit. The bit is large enough that its not going to get permanantly stuck or broken off. I need to get a real sledge hammer, the one I have is a mini sledge and only a few pounds.

[Dammit!]

You need a BIG sledge and if you need a punch, like mentioned before it has to be something real beefy. The last one I did I didn't even use a punch. I leave them on all three wheels and swing the hammer like a putter (but with a lot more force obviously). I find it easier to get an accurate hit on it that way.

Always put the nut on backwards to protect the bolt and give you a larger surface to hit. Always spin it loose and get as much penetrating lubricant on it as you can.

[oscarmayer]

trust me, it will spread and come right back..........

LOL i bet you say that to all the girls... ;)