the honda that refuses to run.

[thefineherb]

1984 200x that wants to go to the scrap pile. But i wont let it.

ok so, i dropped a valve and destroyed my top-end month or so back
completely rebuilt my engine top end.
I found an old head i had, re-seated valves changed the valve springs, set lifters at 0.08mm like it says in the manual. "basicly a new head"
had a spare cylinder and piston waiting for this this emergency. "engine was knocking for long time"
i put it all together with a new timing chain and its 1/2 tooth off? so i've tried it half a tooth back and half a tooth forward. after about 10 kicks i get a slight sputter then nothing.

note: there is beautiful fire. and the plug is soaking.

my only idea at this point is valves are to tight? i am getting disgusted with this project by the way haha.

i can get pictures up if needed.

[bobotech]

Did you do a compression test? If not, do a compression test.

[thefineherb]

Did you do a compression test? If not, do a compression test.

compression is fine, forgot to mention that. sorry.

this might be the problem though.
i could not find another 200x head so i used a 200m head with the decompression switch. i just got looking and the valve clearance is 0.05mm
so which clearance should i go by?

[thestud25]

I am not a 200 expert, but I believe that the .05 clearance is on the right path. I do not know if the 200m and x heads are interchangeable.

[thefineherb]

compression is fine, forgot to mention that. sorry.

this might be the problem though.
i could not find another 200x head so i used a 200m head with the decompression switch. i just got looking and the valve clearance is 0.05mm
so which clearance should i go by?

ive had working heads on x engines off 185s 200s and big reds.
im gonna go try the 0.05
the fact that it wont run is very strange....

[Vealmonkey]

I find this hard to make any sense out of. You have fine fire and the plug is soaking. So if you have good spark and the plug is wet, it should fire. Heck if you have the plug out checking for spark and it's soaking wet with gas, it should start a fire. Unless the plug is wet with oil. I might also venture a guess that if you timing is "half a tooth out", then maybe your timing is 180 degrees out? But I would loosen up my rockers and set your timing to be right on. If you can't set your timing right on, then maybe you should try resetting your timing 180 degrees and then see if you can set your timing right on.

[TrailerRider]

I am with veal on this one. If your half a tooth off then your timing is off and your not going to run right or at all if it is out far enough.

[atctim]

A - replace timing chain - 1/2 tooth off = stretched chain.
B - Re-check valves. I have done this several times - think i have it right - but won't start - so I go back and check them and they are way off.

[rdlsz24]

Hey I am using 185s valves on my 200x top end and it is also noisy. I do see what you are saying in the service manuals that the 200x says .08mm for the valve clearance and the 185s clearance is .05mm, just like on the 200m rockers you used. Which should we set it to?

Rob

[BigRed_Ryno]

go with the .08mm to begin with, you gotta have quite some gap for it not to run at all. I reckon your 180 deg out... Done that one myself, from taking the spark advancer thingy apart (when i didnt need to) and putting it back together the wrong way. When i switched it round it started first time B)

[Russell 350X]

If your a tooth off, adjust it, and set your valve to .003, it is what my manual call's for. And check your pulse generator setup, make sure it is right....

[tri again]

My 87 big red had the valve lash set around 1/2 a foot...

actually more like a quarter of an inch LOOOOOOSE and extremely noisy from 50 feet.

but it started and ran perfectly so I can't imagine a thousandths or 2 would matter that much
in this sense.

My guess is that the valves were set withOUT beiing at tdc and 180 out.

Old worn out timing chains that slap will still run so maybe step back a little, take a deep breath and outsmart that sucker

[thefineherb]

thank you all for the brainstorming ideas Everyone!

BRAN SPANKIN NEW timing chain and its 1/2 a tooth out even if i swap it 180 degrees.
Cam sprocket is wore?
tried setting it at 0.05 and it still just sputters for a second
i dont have my advancer in backwards by the way. although i have done this many times hahaha

im attaching a pic of the timing with the flywheel tdc
the bike is very dirty and is drove hard "its like my car when im at the rentz" so dont comment on that haha, or you can if you want :) going to redo the frame and paint motor etc. later this winter/next spring

picture of cam sprocket with flywheel tdc (http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6947/offtiming.jpg)

[tri again]

I'm not opposed to perfection but how far off
can a worn out timing chain be and still run.? at least 1/2 tooth

and I know yerz is new so that's not it,

like my br, the valve lash was off by a mile and still ran...like scary loud from 50 feet

what in the world are we missing?

i do know that a lawn mower that hits a rock will dent the little flywheel keeper key
by 10 thousandths enough to not run

is there a keeper pin holding one of the cam drive sprockets?

may have sheared but still looks/feels tight

my 1947 tractor is NOwhere near TDC but it runs 180 out

Hey?

when you DO get it running, pls let us know what it was before you drive off

thanks

[NINJA]

Holy hell! Where to begin!

I know some peeps are gonna jump all over me just for saying this, but did you put a brand new spark plug in? It sounds like you have a fouled plug, or your fuggin' flooded! If that doesn't take care of it, I could name a dozen other things judging from that picture, as to why it won't run. Godspeed.

[thefineherb]

the cam pin has not sheared, nor has the key for the flywheel. ive checked this already. ive been scratching my head on this bike for about 2 weeks now. i've rebuilt about 10 honda trikes and this one is just being a pain in my arse. mabye i should just let it sit for awhile. go back look at it with a fresh perspective.

yes its a brand new sparkplug.
yes i know the wireing harness looks bad. but it isnt trust me. i did not care about looks when i redid it.

[Ironbnder]

Not picking on you here Herb but the picture does speak volumes. Between the wiring harness and the gasket-in-a-tube, all I can say is WOW. I admire your "just get it done so I can ride" attitude. Start fresh tommorrow and it will come to you. :D

[EarlyBronocGuy]

The chain sprocket on the crankshaft is probably rotated a degree or two in respect to the crank. You could also try adjusting the chain tensioner and see if you can get the cam lined up at crank TDC. The cam sprocket can bolt to the cam 180 degress off, try removing the bolts, rotating the cam 180 degrees, and replacing the bolts. Make sure that as you rotate the engine around by hand, the intake valve opens as the piston goes down, intake closes, piston comes up to TDC/dot on cam sprocket lines up with notch/"T" mark in flywheel lines up with mark on crankcase (this is where you set valve clearance, because both rockers are on the base circle of the cam), piston goes down, exhaust opens, piston comes up, exhaust closes and intake opens, etc.

That much gasket sealer on the cylinder head cover can screw up the clearances for the cam/rockers/valves, you don't need the entire tube on there, just enough to keep the oil from leaking out.

[NINJA]

That much gasket sealer on the cylinder head cover can screw up the clearances for the cam/rockers/valves, you don't need the entire tube on there, just enough to keep the oil from leaking out.
Or get rid of that silicone gasket sealer only fit for SBC valve covers altogether and use a grey rigid high torque sealer like the factory. Doesn't matter, blue, orange, red, or black, that silicone trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro has no place on an ATV/MC engine ever. Do you even know how many fried top-ends I've had to rebuild over the years because of an oil galley clogged by a loose piece of RTV? Only use Hondabond, Yamabond, or even Permatex High Torque Grey. When it's dried, does it jiggle like Pam Anderson's jugs? Then it is the wrong stuff for the job.

[thefineherb]

went to go shut the lights out in the shed.
skunk sitting under my trike.
waited until the skunk left the shed. 20 ft away "took about 10 minutes"
closed the door...
close call to no working in the shed for a week or two.

mabye he was going to fix it for me? lol

thank you everyone ill let you know how it turns out, and ill change that gasket i have some permatex.

[thefineherb]

today (it runs and runs well)

changed the gasket for permatex.
got timing chain dead on.
changed EVERYTHING electrical off my old 185 i broke the frame on (coil, alternater, computer, harness was like new

started first kick with choke.

Thank you everybody for all the help.