Is the 86-87 200x motors faster than the 83-85?

[84_200x_49660]

Just wonder if the stock 86-87 200x motor is faster than the 83-85? I have heard that there is a Huge difference, if so what is the difference? They are the same size motor? Just curious

[RodKnockRacing]

Gearing 86-87 had a 6 speed Trans and slightly larger cylinder 198cc I think where 83-85 had 192cc

[willrideanythin]

The newer ones are more fun IMO, But I didnt notice that much of a power diff between the 2.

[84_200x_49660]

How are they more fun? I have not ridden an 86-87

[willrideanythin]

6 speed means more shifting, Im not sure, I just had more fun on my 87 the my 83. Maybe the balance is better, IDK.

[NINJA]

86-87 is superior in every way except for parts availability. They were up 4 hp over the 83-85. The frames are incredibly tough, they handle better, and they look better IMO.

[Xpress]

If I had the option of an 83-84 or an 86-87, then I would be crawling all over the older model, just because it can perform a bit better in speed and power. Also, hitting 5th gear, and going to shift again when the thing is topping out is a pain :(

[NINJA]

If I had the option of an 83-84 or an 86-87, then I would be crawling all over the older model, just because it can perform a bit better in speed and power. Also, hitting 5th gear, and going to shift again when the thing is topping out is a pain :(

Riiight, so you are trying to say Honda took a step backward with the 86-87 200X?:lol:

Here, I'll list the advantages of the 86-87:

Chain adjustment is far simpler
Valve adjustment is easier
Engine produces 4 more horsepower
6-speed is a good thing, the 83-85 needs another gear (why do you think people do the XR tranny mod?)
Cam rides on roller bearings instead of the head itself!
Kick-start mechanism is much stronger
Frame is stronger in every way
Suspension geometry is vastly improved, which means better handling
You can actually bore out an 86-87 cylinder more than .020":lol:
Better cam chain tensioner
It's got a higher resale value
It looks better
Etc.....

Honestly, do I need to keep going? Wait until Dirtcrasher comes to this thread:p

[aldochina]

well said ninja!! The only thing i like about the 83 is the nastalgia of it being the first fully suspended 4-stroke sport trike!!!

[Xpress]

Riiight, so you are trying to say Honda took a step backward with the 86-87 200X?:lol:

Here, I'll list the advantages of the 86-87:

Chain adjustment is far simpler
Valve adjustment is easier
Engine produces 4 more horsepower
6-speed is a good thing, the 83-85 needs another gear (why do you think people do the XR tranny mod?)
Cam rides on roller bearings instead of the head itself!
Kick-start mechanism is much stronger
Frame is stronger in every way
Suspension geometry is vastly improved, which means better handling
You can actually bore out an 86-87 cylinder more than .020":lol:
Better cam chain tensioner
It's got a higher resale value
It looks better
Etc.....

Honestly, do I need to keep going? Wait until Dirtcrasher comes to this thread:p

LOL, no, that came out all wrong :p

The 86-87X's are what I would be after :D

[portland250r]

i have ridden an 85 and 86 i dont remember the 85 cause i was a little kid but the 86 i think is better because its improved like ninja said i also think it's faster.

[harryredtrike]

of coarse the 86-87 models are better than the first gen trikes.honda engineers are top notch and would only improve a model not go backwards,but reverse would be nice

[portland250r]

of coarse the 86-87 models are better than the first gen trikes.honda engineers are top notch and would only improve a model not go backwards,but reverse would be nice

reverse would be great.
you know how many times i have had to shut my 200x off and push it backwards from dead end trails.
blackberry's are bad when you ride through trails i have driven through them to get to the other side and sometimes they get too thick so you have to manuever your trike around manually to get out.
its easy to push the trike around but a hassle when theres blackberry's tied around your trike.

[harryredtrike]

for sure, reverse would have been great

[84_200x_49660]

I do agree they do look better. I would like to have an 86-87. I can't complain, i got my 84 for $50.00

[fabiodriven]

My buddy used to walk all over my first gen 200X with his second gen. The difference was night and day.

[Fungo Wizard]

Without a doubt the 86/87 is a better machine, but parts can be a bear to find. I had an 85 and it seemed prehistoric to my 87. Just my opinion, but I think the 86/87 wins in every category.

[willrideanythin]

I must say the 86 kickers are crap. Thats why the 87s have a heavier set up.

[shortline10]

Stock verses stock the 86/87 are a better machine but when it comes to making HP with aftermarket goodies the older model 83-85 200x is the way to go . The stories I've always been told is the head design on the older model 200x flows much better when moded and will produce more power . Back when I raced in the mid 1980s when the 86 model 200x hit the race seen it could not compete HP wise with the older model motor , even Curtis Sparks the 200x expert builder/racer didn't use a 2nd gen 200x even after they were out for over a year .

[Dirtcrasher]

Ninja, you said it well.

Shortline is right on the money too. But for the guy that rides every so often, a built 83-85 with a slipping kickstarter isn't allot of fun.....

Just the feel of a well tuned 86/87 200X is worth owning. They are night and day apart.

[84_200x_49660]

Sounds like i need to find an 86-87. I want FAST. I want a ton of low end torque.

[willrideanythin]

Then go 350X if you want a ton.

[honda200x1987]

I ride my 1987 200x on the weekends and I have rode the 1st generation also. The 87 model is very fast with it's 6 speed trainy. If you punch the gas it can bring a wheelie easily from 1st-3rd gear,very powerfull for a 198cc engine. The 83-85 is not too far behind though but will be beat by a stock 86-87, the 6th gear makes a difference in top speed.

[willrideanythin]

It and the first gen wheely due to ergos, Not power. Its a wheely machine for sure though

[Yamaha_Rules69]

I can smoke my buddies 86 200x with my 84 200x - with a 185s engine! Start to finish, I got it. All that is done to my 185 motor is Bassani exhaust, XR 200 cam, xr 200 carb, open airbox lid. His is bone stock. I can tell a huge difference for the 86 powerwise in the right situation though - when we go up sand hills - I run out of power quick, and he keeps chugging. The 83-85 model IS a lot better for heavily modding, and if you break somthing, you can find parts all day everyday. The 86-87 is very difficult to find parts for, and that is a huge downfall, but I do agree the frame and suspension geometry are way ahead of their time for the 86-87.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Your buds 86 is a dog.................

There are NO more difficult parts to find for the 2nd gen other than the cam, springs and retainers. Not so many guys port them/stroke them etc etc........

LAST I knew, you could get MAIER fenders etc.

I'd be happy to put up my 200X versus an early X. Stock gearing and it's right up with my 14 toothed 350X - Explain that please....................

[willrideanythin]

Your the man

[Yamaha_Rules69]

What sized tires do you have on your 350x DC? I was suprised I could get him off take- off even, with stock gearing and 22 inch tires. He had 20's on his, and I believe stock gearing. I figured he would get me at first, then maybe top out about the same speed, or somthing, but I got him all the way, everytime.

[honda200xatc]

Did you ever switch 3 wheelers and race again? It makes a huge difference on the level and experience of the rider. I just have a hard time believing that with a 185s motor you beat him. I have a honda 200s and I dont believe that thing could even come close but maybe your motor is stronger than mine because mine smokes a little. Try switching wheelers and see if the outcome is the same

[obijuan]

lookin like this, with a fouled out oily ass plug and old gas my 200x it would shred. its so fast i havent learned how to handle it at WOT through all six speeds.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c279/gottasmallface/honduh/IMG_0090.jpg

[NINJA]

That poor 87! Please, start fixing it up.

[harryredtrike]

for sure,she is tired.time for a redo

[NINJA]

The stories I've always been told is the head design on the older model 200x flows much better when moded and will produce more power .

I'd have to see a cut in half cross section of each head to confirm that rumor or have both heads on hand to flow bench test them. 4-stroke port and valve operating angle is definitely a huge factor in flow characteristics. The problem with the 83-85 200X engine is the fact that it started life as the dimunitive CB100 engine way back in 1970. That means that the head was originally designed to have adequate flow capabilities for a 100cc single cylinder engine. Oftentimes, flow characteristics in a 4-stroke head will decrease in efficiency when the displacement of the cylinder is increased. Some engines are severely hampered in their output potential simply by the space requirements for them. Port angles will be manipulated simply so that the cylinder head will have adequate room to clear the frame it is designated for. Most factories back then didn't anticipate the possibility of engine modification for the sake of competitive racing, so the engines weren't designed to have further potential. The thing is though, the 83-85 200 engine was and is extremely common in all it's incarnations (100, 125, 185, 200, 230). That fact allows much more room for aftermarket companies and modifiers to embrace it, tweak it, and improve upon it. The 86-87 engine was purpose built and designed specifically for the 200X 3-wheeler. The problem is the fact that it debuted in 1986 when everyone was already anticipating the demise of trikes. This discouraged many aftermarket companies from embracing the 86-87 engine for the sake of performance enhancement. Bottom line, it didn't get near the tuner R&D time that the 83-85 engine did. I firmly believe that the 86-87 engine has a higher potential than the 83-85, it just got the short end of the stick. Think about it, it was made 15 years later, a lot changes in mechanical engineering and internal combustion engine theory during that time, and it's always an improvement with each year.

[shortline10]

I agree with you 100% Ninja .

I can remember guys buying the new 86 model 200x say mid to late 1985 and having the motor completely tricked out and they couldn't get the power they were producing out of the older motor style and I'm sure your right with a little more time someone would have figured it out .




I'd have to see a cut in half cross section of each head to confirm that rumor or have both heads on hand to flow bench test them. 4-stroke port and valve operating angle is definitely a huge factor in flow characteristics. The problem with the 83-85 200X engine is the fact that it started life as the dimunitive CB100 engine way back in 1970. That means that the head was originally designed to have adequate flow capabilities for a 100cc single cylinder engine. Oftentimes, flow characteristics in a 4-stroke head will decrease in efficiency when the displacement of the cylinder is increased. Some engines are severely hampered in their output potential simply by the space requirements for them. Port angles will be manipulated simply so that the cylinder head will have adequate room to clear the frame it is designated for. Most factories back then didn't anticipate the possibility of engine modification for the sake of competitive racing, so the engines weren't designed to have further potential. The thing is though, the 83-85 200 engine was and is extremely common in all it's incarnations (100, 125, 185, 200, 230). That fact allows much more room for aftermarket companies and modifiers to embrace it, tweak it, and improve upon it. The 86-87 engine was purpose built and designed specifically for the 200X 3-wheeler. The problem is the fact that it debuted in 1986 when everyone was already anticipating the demise of trikes. This discouraged many aftermarket companies from embracing the 86-87 engine for the sake of performance enhancement. Bottom line, it didn't get near the tuner R&D time that the 83-85 engine did. I firmly believe that the 86-87 engine has a higher potential than the 83-85, it just got the short end of the stick. Think about it, it was made 15 years later, a lot changes in mechanical engineering and internal combustion engine theory during that time, and it's always an improvement with each year.

[STLTrike]

On the 86-87 models the seat is an inch shorter and the foot pegs are an inch higher. Making it a little crapmed for some riders. I have an 85 and I'm pretty happy with it. Worried about the kick starter going out on me though. Would like an 86, but I'm comfy on my 85. Would avoid the 87 because of the 2nd gear breaking problem they have. But yeah the 86-87 models are cool, with the box frame, probably a peak into what was to be the future of 3 wheelers...

[Dirtcrasher]

What sized tires do you have on your 350x DC? I was suprised I could get him off take- off even, with stock gearing and 22 inch tires. He had 20's on his, and I believe stock gearing. I figured he would get me at first, then maybe top out about the same speed, or somthing, but I got him all the way, everytime.

20" Holeshot tires on both trikes...........

[Aka_am]

My 86x, would be about 2 trike lengths behind a 400ex. Riding on a trail, that didn't have a lot of straightaways and its was the X. We weigh about the same too. My bike is stock if I must say though besides it's cleaned up and a fresh motor, clutch and filter.

I want to polish up the heads. My last head was cleaned up and polished, with the exhaust head-pipe matched. My first attempt. :) With two people was the most noticeable, it didn't feel any different. Now you can feel the extra weight. That the biggest difference for me, just cruising on the trails. I think it was more torque and more down low. Now it's only mid and high, low is blah.