What srew do you use to ride on ice ?

[rayatc84]

What sort of screw do you use to ride on ice tracks ?

Last winter, I've used this ice screws with new Innova Power Gear tires on my 86' 250R : 103832

They are 4.5 mm diameter and 10 mm lenght.

The problem is that after 10-15 minutes, there was almost no scews on the rear wheels; for a 1:30 hour round, it's not great... and it was a 4:00 race on 3 rounds of 1:00 to 1:30.
So I did most of the race without scew and it's not really fun...

So have you got better solution than mine to ride on ice ?

[bobotech]

The shop that I hang out at uses sheet metal screws. Can you get hardened sheet metal screws somewhere such as grade 8? I wonder if that would work better if you can get them.

[Tecate 50]

I use 7/16 or 1/2 inch Gold Diggers, I have lost a few here and there and always check them after a race!

[Maico]

1/2" Kold Kutters

[250rAL]

For the lost screw problem, it's more the tire than the screw. What kind of tires were you using?

[rayatc84]

I use 7/16 or 1/2 inch Gold Diggers, I have lost a few here and there and always check them after a race!

7/16 and 1/2 are the lenght under the head of the screw ? Mine are 10 mm lenght so it's slightly less than 7/16".
No puncture problem with 1/2" ?

[rayatc84]

For the lost screw problem, it's more the tire than the screw. What kind of tires were you using?

It's "Innova Tire Power Gear" 20x10-9; you can see it here : http://www.allopneus.com/INNOVA-POWER-GEAR-20x10x9-43138.html#performances

Gum (don't know if it's the correct word !) is relatively flexible, but other racers with more hard gum also lost almost all the screws like me.
So I think there is also a problem with screws that are too short, but I also fear to flat my tires with longer screws.

I'm little lost...

[250rAL]

I know some racers use 1 inch(about 2cm) screws that go all the way through then put tire sealant (like Slime) inside to seal around the screws.

[RoscoW]

I used 1" (25mm) Kold Kutters ( http://koldkutter.com/catalog/index.php ) in some 25 year old tires with slime on the inside and haven't had a air leak in two years.
http://www.slime.com/

A new stud company I found a while ago......
http://mf44.ca/en/index.asp

Ross..

[rayatc84]

I used 1" (25mm) Kold Kutters ( http://koldkutter.com/catalog/index.php ) in some 25 year old tires with slime on the inside and haven't had a air leak in two years.
http://www.slime.com/

Thanks for the infos and links.

25 year old tire; so I presume the rubber may be dry and hard.
Do you mean Slime tire sealant?
No leak in two years, but no screws ripped?
Do you fix them with Loctite or equivalent?

Small precision: it is not to ride on snow, but only on ice track.
And my ATC have to be ridden during 1:30 continuously without screws verification (4:00 endurance race in 3 rounds, team of 2 riders with 1 ATC).

In fact I think my current screws are 3/8"; probably a bit short...

I just found this: http://www.best-grip.com
Anyone knows or uses it?
They seems to be very performant and wrenkling, but also very, very expensive : 290€ the box 500 !!!

Riders who use 1/2" screw: screws do not tear? Do you fix them with Loctite or equivalent? Do you ride long on ice without losing screws?

[rayatc84]

Nobody to answer my many questions and help a poor ignorant lonesome neo-ice rider ??? :wondering

I can't imagine it... :(

[3wheelmecca]

I use small sheet metal screws on ice tires. I have seen hoosiers (8 or higher compound) running them.

[Russell 350X]

I use 1" or 1.25" Kold Kutters and load the tire with slime. They rarely rip out that way.

[rayatc84]

I use 1" or 1.25" Kold Kutters and load the tire with slime. They rarely rip out that way.

I just bought 2 rear DUNLOP KT877 20x10-9 and a front KENDA K530F PATHFINDER 23x8-11. I'm going to put 1" srews with Loctite 480 and slime inside tires.

I have another question: do you put screws on tire before put slime inside, or slime before and screws after ?:wondering

[Russell 350X]

I just bought 2 rear DUNLOP KT877 20x10-9 and a front KENDA K530F PATHFINDER 23x8-11. I'm going to put 1" srews with Loctite 480 and slime inside tires.

I have another question: do you put screws on tire before put slime inside, or slime before and screws after ?:wondering

After you put screws in...then slime...

[rayatc84]

Just a more few questions :
How much Slime sealant do you put in each tire?
How many screw do you put on each tire?
What air pressure do you put in your tires?

Thanks for your help.

[Bryan Raffa]

Just a more few questions :
How much Slime sealant do you put in each tire?
How many screw do you put on each tire?
What air pressure do you put in your tires?

Thanks for your help.

use 1" cold kutters.. havent lost a screw in 4 years!

the amount of screws depend on horsepower ..start with a light number of screws, the same pattern on each tire, you can always add more if it's not enough traction.
I run the same PSI and I would in the dirt.. higher if I wanna spin ,,, lower if I wanna hook.

DONT PUT ANY SLIME IN YOUR FRONT TIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL HAVE HORRIFIC VIBRATIONS!
AND I WOULDNT PUT ANY IN THE REAR UNTILL THEY START LEAKING!

when you studd put 10-15 PSI in the tire.. and then stud them ..when you let the air out the rubber will grab the stud better.

you can even INDEX the screws , by haveing the slot facing the same direction.

[rayatc84]

Thanks for the reply Bryan.

So you don't use loctite to fix the screws on the rubber?

And it's possible to have no leak without slime? You never have any leak in your front tire?

[fabiodriven]

I have never heard of anyone using Loctite in this application.

Sometimes when you stud a tire it will leak, sometimes they don't. Slime works wonders.

[eddie pettengil]

I'm thinking its a tire problem (too soft). Here is the right way, Chin Shin c826 tire in your size (18 inch are best for 250r). Then use kold kutters,gold screw or any ice racing screw in the 1/2 inch size (dont use sheet metal screws). Place 1 screw in the front corner of every nobby. Some will fall out so replace as you need to. Every season remove the screws and replace with a new one in a different corner of the nobby. After 4 seasons there will be no more corners left to put a screw in so get 1 inch ice racing screw and place it in the center of the nobby.

If you want to use the tires you have I would use 1 inch screws and place them in the front corner of every nobby and try it. If you need more traction put one in the other front corner of the nobby

[rayatc84]

I have never heard of anyone using Loctite in this application.

I saw they use Loctite here: http://www.best-grip.com
So I thought it was better...
But if you guys that are used to ride on ice never use Loctite, I will not complicate my life and I'm not going to use it either!

For the numbers of screws on tires, last year the organization imposed us maximum 120 screws for the whole trike! 40 screws per tire is not very much compared to 1 screw in every nobby...
I think it's also why I lost all my screws: less screws = more pullout force on each screw...
And for the traction, I let you imagine...

This year, I think there will be no screw limitation...

[eddie pettengil]

40 studs per tire , wow that's one stud per row of nobbies on the chin shin. The chin shin tires we use have 320 or 360 studs in each tire. Another thing that happens when you use soft rubber tires is the stud sinks in to the nobby leaving less to grip to the ice.

[rayatc84]

Here is what my last year wheels looked like with only 40 3/8" screws...

109529

Following your advices, it should be a little better this year...