do I have to mix 20:1?

[2fiftyR]

Do i really need to run the honda recomended 20:1 fuel to oil mixture in my 1981 250R?It sure keeps the mosquitos away!

[leviblue]

yes if you wanna keep it running....everyone has their own spec's for their bikes....Figure one bottle per 5 gals is a easy way to do it.....

[Chillian]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?53212-All-About-2-stroke-Oil-Ratios.-Interesting-find

[MrGiggles]

In antique chainsaws I don't run the recommended 16-25:1 ratio, but 50:1 instead. Oil qualities have improved quite a bit in the past 29 years, I wouldn't hesitate to run a quality synthetic oil at 50:1. Amsoil makes a 2 stroke oil that they advertise to be safe to run at 100:1.

[RideRed250R]

you cant give a 2 stroke enough oil, so 20:1 is recommended even on 2006 BANSHEE's, I dont run 20:1 all the time , I ussually mix to 32:1 but on hot days I go ot 20:1 just because fouling a plug is cheaper then burning the thing up

[RIDE-RED 250r]

i currently run Amsoil Dominator at the rich side of 50:1 and have had good luck. but after reading some of that, i think ill fatten it up a little bit. good info as usual guys!

[2fiftyR]

hey thanks for the info-this is my first two stroke

[Chillian]

hey thanks for the info-this is my first two stroke

Welcome to the club!!!

You know you have a problem when you go in the garage to hear it run for a min, and smell that glorious smell.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Welcome to the club!!!

You know you have a problem when you go in the garage to hear it run for a min, and smell that glorious smell.

sound like someone you know?? :naughty:

[code200k]

i run all my stuff at 32:1

[Thorpe]

I switched to amsoil synthetic on all my 2 smokes... 80:1 without problem... (so far)

[oldskool83]

i always ran my 2 strokes 32:1. now my bikes were new. the 1 250 i did have i ran 40:1. 32:1 is safe

[harryredtrike]

older 250r models require more than 50-1, i personally wont go leaner than 32-1.but its your trike you want to shorten the life, lean her out.honda engineers want 20-1 so go leaner at ytour own risk.

[juggaloclownz18]

honda engineers are just like every other engineer, it will run at 20:1 but will fatten their pockets up quicker that way :-) I run 32:1 and leave it, if its super hot then i go 40:1....

[RIDE-RED 250r]

honda engineers are just like every other engineer, it will run at 20:1 but will fatten their pockets up quicker that way :-) I run 32:1 and leave it, if its super hot then i go 40:1....

i think you meant to put that the other way around there bud.... 40:1 is leaner than 32:1


BTW: heard you were talking to my bud Chillian bout getting together for a ride up north sometime??

[NINJA]

honda engineers are just like every other engineer, it will run at 20:1 but will fatten their pockets up quicker that way :-) I run 32:1 and leave it, if its super hot then i go 40:1....

How will it make them more money if you run a 20:1 ratio? Many people don't buy factory oil. The level of the oil that settles in the bottom of your crankcase once it comes out of the suspension of the intake charge is what is important. It keeps your bottom end happy and also aids in cooling. A topend on a 2-stroke can survive with far less oil than the bottom end. You ever notice those two little holes in your case halves above your crank main bearings? Those are what help feed oil to your crank main bearings since they are sealed off from your transmission. I have dyno experience, 16:1-20:1 makes a noticeable amount of power over 50:1-80:1. Running a mixture of 100:1 is just plain recklessness! These guys that claim they're machine is so much faster since they started running 80:1 Amsoil are simply experiencing the phenomenon of placebo effect. Put an identically set up machine up against it in a race and see which one is faster, then dyno them. The numbers don't lie either way. If the manufacturer recommends 32:1, then run 32:1! They're more concerned with their reliability reputation then their profit from selling replacement parts. These machines we ride come from Japan, not China. Don't fall for all the hype, modern synthetic oils have not changed much over the last 30 years.
Remember, 2-strokes are supposed to smoke.

[nitrodude81r]

I used to run 20:1 in mine and it ran ok. Now when I did the 34mm carb swap and got a DG pipe I went to 32:1 and it runs alot better. I run Amsoil Dominator now and have had no problems with it. Good luck

[cattle-dog]

i run 32-1, 50-1 cost me a 310 r motor.

[bigbadktm]

I like to run 40:1, ran that for 9 years in my KTM without issue....man I miss that bike, but now I have my 85 250r to play with

[RIDE-RED 250r]

How will it make them more money if you run a 20:1 ratio? Many people don't buy factory oil. The level of the oil that settles in the bottom of your crankcase once it comes out of the suspension of the intake charge is what is important. It keeps your bottom end happy and also aids in cooling. A topend on a 2-stroke can survive with far less oil than the bottom end. You ever notice those two little holes in your case halves above your crank main bearings? Those are what help feed oil to your crank main bearings since they are sealed off from your transmission. I have dyno experience, 16:1-20:1 makes a noticeable amount of power over 50:1-80:1. Running a mixture of 100:1 is just plain recklessness! These guys that claim they're machine is so much faster since they started running 80:1 Amsoil are simply experiencing the phenomenon of placebo effect. Put an identically set up machine up against it in a race and see which one is faster, then dyno them. The numbers don't lie either way. If the manufacturer recommends 32:1, then run 32:1! They're more concerned with their reliability reputation then their profit from selling replacement parts. These machines we ride come from Japan, not China. Don't fall for all the hype, modern synthetic oils have not changed much over the last 30 years.
Remember, 2-strokes are supposed to smoke.


ok, there have been some very interetsing pints made on this. what i am wondering is this....if i go from 50:1 to 32:1 or 20:1 will i need to richen the jetting a tad to compensate for higher overall oil volume in the fuel mix? i am thinking yes since the oil will be taking up a larger portion of the overall fuel volume taken in.....thus slightly leaning the fuel/air mixture making it into the cumbustion chamber.


on a side note: my sleds run a 50:1 oil injection system, but i have been told that the pump richens the oil mix as throttle increases... not that it keeps it a constant 50:1, but actually increases to about 32:1 or so by the time you are at WOT.....i would think if 32:1 is ok for a 155hp screaming 800 triple with 8 crank bearings that maybe 32:1 should be good for these?? just more food for thought for the discussion.....

[juggaloclownz18]

i think you meant to put that the other way around there bud.... 40:1 is leaner than 32:1


BTW: heard you were talking to my bud Chillian bout getting together for a ride up north sometime??

hahaha yeah had it backwards, should have re-read my post oooops.... Yeah hoping too, just waiting to finish all the nickel and dime crap on my R first then were all gonna take a ride, your all invited, as many people as we can!!

[ktmbk]

In the end It depends on where you are, what you are using, who you listen to, and how you ride.
I went through two cylinder sleeves over the years on my 83 250r, during which I was trying out different ratio's and oils. In the end I found running the 20:1 mix works best for my bike using golden spectro pre mix (when I can still find it), and also using the honda gear oil in the lower. If possible I try to mix 93 pump gas 50/50 with cam 2, but have used straight 93 when I didn't have the funds. I noticed it takes the bike a little longer to warm up with the 20:1 than with a thinner mix but since I went with that combo I have not had any problems. If it helps I have always found using the ratio-right cups the best way to mix the right amount.

[3Razors]

ok, there have been some very interetsing pints made on this. what i am wondering is this....if i go from 50:1 to 32:1 or 20:1 will i need to richen the jetting a tad to compensate for higher overall oil volume in the fuel mix? i am thinking yes since the oil will be taking up a larger portion of the overall fuel volume taken in.....thus slightly leaning the fuel/air mixture making it into the cumbustion chamber.


on a side note: my sleds run a 50:1 oil injection system, but i have been told that the pump richens the oil mix as throttle increases... not that it keeps it a constant 50:1, but actually increases to about 32:1 or so by the time you are at WOT.....i would think if 32:1 is ok for a 155hp screaming 800 triple with 8 crank bearings that maybe 32:1 should be good for these?? just more food for thought for the discussion.....

Yes, if you go from 50:1 to 20:1 you would have to increase the main jet size by at least one size up.

[honda250sx]

How will it make them more money if you run a 20:1 ratio? Many people don't buy factory oil. The level of the oil that settles in the bottom of your crankcase once it comes out of the suspension of the intake charge is what is important. It keeps your bottom end happy and also aids in cooling. A topend on a 2-stroke can survive with far less oil than the bottom end. You ever notice those two little holes in your case halves above your crank main bearings? Those are what help feed oil to your crank main bearings since they are sealed off from your transmission. I have dyno experience, 16:1-20:1 makes a noticeable amount of power over 50:1-80:1. Running a mixture of 100:1 is just plain recklessness! These guys that claim they're machine is so much faster since they started running 80:1 Amsoil are simply experiencing the phenomenon of placebo effect. Put an identically set up machine up against it in a race and see which one is faster, then dyno them. The numbers don't lie either way. If the manufacturer recommends 32:1, then run 32:1! They're more concerned with their reliability reputation then their profit from selling replacement parts. These machines we ride come from Japan, not China. Don't fall for all the hype, modern synthetic oils have not changed much over the last 30 years.
Remember, 2-strokes are supposed to smoke.

In other words Trace, Not your first rodeo? LoL. Great post with bottom line info. What do you run in your R for oil and at what ratio? I have some old school honda tech that lives nextdoor, been doing smoker motors for decades, he swears by golden spectro...What's your take?

[NINJA]

In other words Trace, Not your first rodeo? LoL. Great post with bottom line info. What do you run in your R for oil and at what ratio? I have some old school honda tech that lives nextdoor, been doing smoker motors for decades, he swears by golden spectro...What's your take?

LOL that's for sure! Oh yeah, I remember the Amsoil 80:1- 100:1 craze with sleds several years ago, even had a trusted friend/fellow tech tell about the miracles of Amsoil and how the modern synthetics are superior and you don't need near as much oil as you used to. I gave it a try, even though I was skeptical. Then the crank took a schiit on my 02 SRX 2 months later, that's expensive! I've been saying it for years, you can't go wrong with 32:1, ever. I jetted my 250R to run 32:1, it's still safe for a machine that the manufacturer recommended 20:1 for, i will not go to 40:1 because that is half the amount of oil recommended. Personally I swear by and prefer Klotz R50.
I agree with your neighbor, Golden Spectro is a fantastic oil, and if you compare it's ash content, burn off rate, etc., to it in the 80's, it's still the same. Most 2-stroke oils still are. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Polaris/Amsoil, it's a great oil and has a great reputation, hell it comes from my homestate. The problem is the crazy ratios that are spoken of like gospel. You can run 80:1 or 100:1 on certain machines. The machines that allow you to get away with it are incidently ones that use double sealed crank main bearings. Those bearings don't rely on oil in the crankcase for lubrication.

[dcreel]

I've been running 32:1 Maxima Super-M on my 84 Tecate for 24 years on the same bore with just a ring and piston change. It is almost time for a bore and a renik though. I have to say that I love the smell of the Klotz oils though.

[cattle-dog]

i use golden spectro

[beets442]

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u104/beets442/DeadHorse.gif32:1

[Tri-Z 250]

You can smell you Gplden Spec oil runners in the woods, much different than the sweet smell of Bel-ray.

[Thorpe]

I switched to amsoil synthetic on all my 2 smokes... 80:1 without problem... (so far)

Maybe I should also note that the only 2 strokes I currently own is my ice auger and weed eater....

[cbx1170]

Hmmmm..... double sealed crank bearings in a twin stroker....... Can't say i've seen that... what make model? What I remember bout 2S oil and why 20:1 was recommended by Honda primarily to help Kool the lower rod bearing as well as lubricate. ~Volume - Flow rates. Using 1981 vintage oils. We have better oils since then but lower rods gotta stay Kool yet too.

[Grizzlypeg]

What's more determining of the mix, the machine or the oil? I notice when you buy 2 stroke oil, it has on the bottle how to mix it for various ratios. That suggests to me the ratio isn't set by the oil manufacturor, its more the machine.

[NINJA]

Hmmmm..... double sealed crank bearings in a twin stroker....... Can't say i've seen that... what make model?
Open up the crankcase on a modern Ski-doo engine, double sealed crank main bearings. Open up the crankcase on a modern Stihl chainsaw, double sealed crank main bearings. They rely on a very expensive grease in the bearings for their lubrication.

[honda250sx]

Open up the crankcase on a modern Ski-doo engine, double sealed crank main bearings. Open up the crankcase on a modern Stihl chainsaw, double sealed crank main bearings. They rely on a very expensive grease in the bearings for their lubrication.

Trace you are spot on! I come from the powersports backround, work for a yammie/polaris dealer for 10 years and I am a machine repairman by day on high speed CNC machines. We have double sealed bearings and ceramic bearings on everything. High speed spindle bearings with grease we use rated to 25,000 RPM. And these spindles run 24/7 365. It truly is amazing.

[RIDE-RED 250r]

Open up the crankcase on a modern Ski-doo engine, double sealed crank main bearings. Open up the crankcase on a modern Stihl chainsaw, double sealed crank main bearings. They rely on a very expensive grease in the bearings for their lubrication.

right on the money here....the grease you speak of is called Isoflex.....i currently have my MXZ800 engine apart on my bench and i intend to drill my crankcase so the outer bearings get oil instead of relying on the isoflex..it has had its share of problems

[tony1]

I have a 1984 Honda 250R atc. I am running 32:1 with a stock carborator(30mm). The main jet is a 130 and the low air jet is 50. I have the needle on the 3rd notch. I hear about people "jetting" their bikes to 32:1. My question is how do you set the bike up to being jetted as 32:1? Is there something more to it then just making the gas/oil mixture as 32:1? The other problem that I have is that it "lags" on accelaration and at full throttle. Do you have any suggestions? I am trying to get some ideas because I already had the piston sieze on me once and not sure really why. I ride in a variety of places from Dumot Dunes in California to the upper elevations in Utah.

[Xfile]

What's more determining of the mix, the machine or the oil? I notice when you buy 2 stroke oil, it has on the bottle how to mix it for various ratios. That suggests to me the ratio isn't set by the oil manufacturor, its more the machine.
I agree...I don't remember reading any 2-stroke oil bottle that says "safe to run at 100 (or 80) : 1 for all applications" they just seem to suggest that the oil is high enough quality to mix at 100:1 if your machine calls for it. ( I have a mid 80's suzuki outboard that calls for 100:1 in the factory suzuki manual + the "mix oil/fuel 100:1" sticker is still on the engine). At the end of the mixing instructions, most bottles spell it out "FOLLOW MANUFACTURES SUGGESTED OIL MIXING RATIO" Personally, I run amsoil at 32:1 in my tri-z and that seems to be plenty of oil (wouldn't want any more).

[NINJA]

I have a 1984 Honda 250R atc. I am running 32:1 with a stock carborator(30mm). The main jet is a 130 and the low air jet is 50. I have the needle on the 3rd notch. I hear about people "jetting" their bikes to 32:1. My question is how do you set the bike up to being jetted as 32:1? Is there something more to it then just making the gas/oil mixture as 32:1? The other problem that I have is that it "lags" on accelaration and at full throttle. Do you have any suggestions? I am trying to get some ideas because I already had the piston sieze on me once and not sure really why. I ride in a variety of places from Dumot Dunes in California to the upper elevations in Utah.
The answers to your questions can be found here:
http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?55086-Carb-Jetting-101-Terms-Tips-and-Jetting-Theory

[tony1]

thank for help