200es rear axle removal HELP!!!!!

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I can't get the rear axle off of my 200es. I thought I knew how but apparently I don't. I need to take it out to replace the wheel bearings and the axle itself but I can't get the @#%% thing out. I took off the right side(brake cover) and that's as far as I made it. The left side cover I can't figure out how to get off it. I really need a clymer manual I guess, I usually just bumble through alright on most everything but not this time. Can anyone help pictures would be great too if you had any. thanks

[MonroeMike]

http://72.52.143.80/~trikes/Manuals/ATC%20manuals/Honda%20200ES%20Big%20Red%201984%20CD.pdf

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Thanks mike I already tried your owners manual didn't see this one you always save the day.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Ok I guess I did know how to remove the axle, guess I wasn't hitting it hard enough. I still don't really know how to replace the left side wheel bearing though. any thoughts

[trikeman78]

The first time I pulled my big red axel out it took a lot of banging. As far as the bearings go. The ring and pinion side has 2 that are submerged in gear oil. They rarely go bad. But if your getting water in you gear oil then you just need new seals. The sealed bearing in the brake drum cover is the one to check.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

The gear oil has water in it and it's the most foul smelling stuff I've smelled in a long time. It sounds like it is bad too though when I turn it. The brake side had mud in it and the bearings bad so it's a safe bet to just replace both the bearings while I'm working on it. Does the actual brake drum come out i'd like to get it out and wash the whole thing out as it's got so much mud in it.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Got the brake drum off now and the brakes taken apart can't find my lock ring pliers though so I can remove the bearing. It's always something, I have moved the axle about an inch to the left so I can finally see splines. It's slow going I have to use a lot of penetrating oil and hit it on the right side get it moving a little and then back on the left side sort of back and forth to keep it moving out. I don't have a bearing driver is it safe to use a big socket?

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

FINALLY have the axle out, I got out the big hammer and the piece of brass and went to town she came out in about five minutes of that. Does anybody know of some good bearings to use don't really want to pay for oem ones there kinda pricey.

[trikeman78]

The rear axle on my 84 big red (like most others) has never been out. I beat my axle out with a 2.5lb sledge and a block of wood. Works great. That big internal snap ring on the brake drum cover is best gotten with a standard pair of pliers. Take an old pair and file the ends down to fit the holes in the snap ring. Add pliers to honda tool box. Check ebay for the bearing. The honda bearing is $50 or there is an NSK Bearing on ebay for $10 free shipping.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I got the snap ring out and punched out the bearing and seal. Did you replace all your rear end bearings, is there 4 or them and 2 seals? If so how did you get them all out? I'll post pics here in a little bit that shows my problem.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

All right this is what I'm dealing with. Inside the brake drum area there is four bolts that are so rusty they look like they'd snap off if you looked at them wrong. It appears that I have to take them off and then the two big long bolts that hold the rear end in place to get that part off so I can get to that bearing and replace it since it's bad.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I need a rear bearing and seals kit but all the ones I find are 90.45. I found a rear bearing and seal kit on ebay for a 1984 trx 200 for 36.77. I am pretty sure there exactly the same and will work because the bearing and seal kits I'm finding for the big red say they'll fit a 1984 trx 200. So I don't see why a rear bearing and seal kit for a trx200 wouldn't work for a big red. Does anyone know for sure?

[trikeman78]

The 1984 trx 200 rear is the same except the housing has one extra mounting location and the drive shaft is longer. All seals and bearings are the same.
Now the rear is 2 sections. Take out the four bolts after you bend the tonged washer tabs down. The brake side has 2 seals. 45x65x15. and one sealed bearing. The ring & pinion side has 2 bearings and 2 seals(45x68x15). Take the gear side cover off carefully. Tap gently with soft hammer. There are spacers on each side of the ring gear. Do not mix them up. clean up all parts and check bearings. New seals are a must at this point.
If you buy the rear diff rebuild kit, you will only get the bearings and seals for the gear side. Brake side you need two 65mm seals and the one sealed bearing.
When you reassemble, the brake side needs a new cover gasket but the gear side doesn't use a gasket. This is IMPORTANT. Clean the mating surface with acetone. Apply the honda metal sealant to both sides and torque down cover evenly.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Thanks for the help first off. I think the tonged washers tabs need bending down are rusted off, I'll try to clean it up more. Will I have to disconnect the drive shaft so that after I take the two bolts that hold the rear end up I can drop it down and take the gear side cover off? I took a razor blade to clean the old gasket off the brake cover it cleaned up good. Do you know where I could get the other bearings and seals for the brake side assuming that the diff rebuild kit doesn't have them.

[trikeman78]

No problem freak, always willing to help another trike lover.
To pull the rear diff: disconnect the 2 vent hoses
Lossen the boot clamp closest to the diff
Take out the 2 mounting bolts
Remove diff
Brake side parts: Seals- ebay- if you can find them
Honda- $15 each
bearing- NSK bearing on ebay for $10 shipped
Honda bearing-$50
The same guy who has the brake side bearing has the 68mm seals that work for the gear side. $5 each shipped When I rebuilt mine, I found my gears and bearings fine. I just needed new seals to keep the water out.
Good luck

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Got the diff all apart I thought those four bolts on the brake side were going to be a pain but they came right out and looked brand new once you got past the bolt head. I'll post pics of every thing, the bearings and seals are all shot and will be replaced. The parts cleaned up pretty good but they were NASTY the oil had water in it and had really gunked up everything. Is there a little bearing where the drive shaft ends after it goes into the diff, if so how do you replace that?


Brake side parts: Seals- ebay- if you can find them
Honda- $15 each
bearing- NSK bearing on ebay for $10 shipped
Honda bearing-$50
The same guy who has the brake side bearing has the 68mm seals that work for the gear side. $5 each shipped When I rebuilt mine, I found my gears and bearings fine. I just needed new seals to keep the water out.
Good luck

Who sells those parts on ebay i'm not finding them? Could you post a link to them if you see them.
this is all I've foundhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ATV-Rear-Axle-Bearing-Kit-HONDA-TRX-200-D-1984-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c096e652eQQitemZ12041 7314094QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[trikeman78]

That rear is shot. To much water damage. I would recommend getting a new rear diff. There are some good used ones on ebay. Find one in good shape and just replace the seals. This will save you time and money. trust me. To install all new bearings and reset the ring and pinion properly requires special tools.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

what... what do you mean shot whats wrong with it. Is it the last pic looks bad, it looks worse because it was drying off it doesn't really look like that.

[Dirtcrasher]

NSK is a good bearing.....

I'm not scared to run "All Balls" on anything because they need changing every couple years anyhow...........

Other guys sell them, but Honda250SX (JEFF) has the best prices on the kits I have got to date, tell him I sent you along.

[Dirtcrasher]

That carrier extensions (for the seals) HAS to be cleaned up, preferably in a lathe! They are rusty and eat the seals right up................
I'd turn the beyatch down 1MM and get other seals if it were mine.

I did not look at you axle but your friend is trying to help...................................as we all are.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Oh I know it needs cleaned up where it meet the seals that is the bad part. I have friends with lathes what needs to be turned down, I'm not familier with names of stuff. If I did get it turned down 1mm where would I get seals for it at? Oh and would I have it turned down along it whole length or just where it meets the seal, if I had it turned down the whole length wouldn't I need a new bearing. What bearings does jeff sell all balls or nsk?

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I cleaned it up decent with some 3M abrasive roll stuff (basically sandpaper on a roll like tape) I'm not sure what it's really called but I't great. What's the best way to get the old bearings off it's kind of a tight place to get a hammer in.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I went to a bearing shop today and priced the bearings I would need just to see if they could get them cheaper than online and they wanted a 112.00 :eek:for one and 40.00 a piece for the other two and I didn't even bother with the seals I said I'll have to look somewhere else. Still waiting on the mail man to get my other parts I ordered. If things get to expesive I might by this diff I found on ebay it's mint and all the bearings and seals look decent, will see what I can dig up on ebay.

Hey trikeman78 you said
This is IMPORTANT. Clean the mating surface with acetone. Apply the honda metal sealant to both sides and torque down cover evenly. which side were you talking about? I'm assuming the gear side, there was a thin white substance around it when I took it off could that be the same stuff. thanks

[trikeman78]

Yeah freak, It will save you time and money to buy a good used rear diff. You still might want to replace the seals on the used diff. Chances are that they are worn and can let in water under river crossings. Search "trx200 rear seal" on ebay. The seal for $4.95 free shipping is the one you want. That is the 68mm seal for the diff side only. Moose racing has a rear diff rebuild kit for about $75. Cheap seals and china bearings though.
When you reinstall the diff cover (gear side) use "Hondabond" sealant. That was the thin white stuff you are talking about. About $8 a tube.
The brake drum side uses a gasket.

[Dirtcrasher]

You don't hammer them off, you use a flush puller that wedges them off............

I never turn crap down until I call my bearing guy and say "do you have spring backed, double lipped seals in this size??

Otherwise you turn it down further and press on a sleeve, then cut that to fit.

Yep, lots of work but this is what it's coming to guys!

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

THANK YOU A MILLION TIMES OVER that is what I was looking for I was pokeing around one of those sellers stores and found the outer and inner bearing NSK no less than 9.95 apiece plus free shipping. The diff side just got rebuilt for a whopping 30.00:D. Now for the brake side:)

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Oh I got the bearings off really easily actually I bought a can of PB blaster and sprayed them down came back an hour later and pulled them off with my bare hands easy as pie.

[Dirtcrasher]

Remember that bearings that go ON a shaft, just press the ID.

Bearings that go into a bore or hole for them, just press or punch on the OD.

Sockets are fine and I've used tubing from Home Depot in the black pipe or electrical section to do this. I bring a set of cheap vernier calipers to check the sizes.......... Copper pipe even fits sometimes.......... When ya gotta do, you gotta do!!

Remember that if the bearings are going on crooked at all, your doing something wrong...............

Good luck :beer

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I'm having trouble finding a cheap 6909UU bearing for the brake side everyone I find is close to 50.00. I have found the 45-65-15 seals for 27.64 for both of them thats not to bad but if anyone one knows a better deal let me know.

[Dirtcrasher]

Tomorrow is too busy, maybe friday I can call Butchie........

Send all the sizes and info to ATCST@Verizon.net by tomorrow in case I call Butchie. They will be quality bearings (before you touch them) :lol: J/K and dual lipped rubber coated seals, sometimes which is Blue and kinda cool; I want real sizes but 1mm under ID seals and you can do your homework to see if theyb can be cut and polished smooth for a seal.

I cut and pasted this: I'm having trouble finding a cheap 6909UU bearing for the brake side everyone I find is close to 50.00. I have found the 45-65-15 seals for 27.64 for both of them thats not to bad but if anyone one knows a better deal let me know.

Make sure that your dead obn, he gives me what I order. I may be able ro get them shipped direct to you and save shipping.....

He's good at oddball sh!t but it (the seals) may not be made. If so, send it to me and I'll fix it but I will need both the bearings and seals.....

[trikeman78]

Cool freak. you found the bearings and seals i was talking about. First off that guy sells them cheap but doesnt list them right. The bearing you bought that is listed as the "inner bearing" is the sealed bearing that fits the brake drum cover. The "outer bearing" is a sealed bearing intended for the rear of the chain drive models. It does however match the size of the ring gear outer bearing. So it can be used but its a sealed bearing not an open one. The seals for the brake side sometimes can be found on ebay for cheap but new honda seals online are around $15 each. Not bad
I have rebuilt 2 rear ends. Ones is in my trike and the other is on the shelf. I also have the moose racing rebuild kit for the rear diff. It has all the bearings and seals to rebuild the gear side only. If your interested, call me and we can work a deal. 484-631-5117
If you rebuild your rear be sure to clean up the areas where the ring gear rides in the seals. Same for the collar on the brake side. Take them to a lathe and clean them with scotchbrite till smooth. Do not cut them down. Depending on how bad the rear is, you might see grooves in metal where it rides in the seal.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

trikeman78 I didn't buy them them yet I'm just trying to get everything together once I find all of them I'll see what the best option for me. Either buying the new diff or just the bearings and seals.
dirtcrasher my computer won't let me mail to outlook express. I don't have a micrometer to measure my 6909UU bearing but I found this onliine I'm not really sure how to read these so I'll post the link for you http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/iko-nippon-thompson-america/needle-roller-bearing-series/15950-3580-_107.html It's at the top. The honda Microphese(spelling) says the brake seals I need (2) are 45-65-15. I don't want to order these right now just price them, these prices will make up my mind whether to buy a new diff or just the seals and bearings. Thanks for all the help guys.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

hey trikeman78 Is that your atc in your avatar if so that's a nice brush guard you got there been looking for one for mine for a while. The only ones I find are on machines and the one I didn't find on a machine was 250.00.

[trikeman78]

Yeah Thats my 1984 atc200es big red. I took that pic this past winter during our big snow storm of 24". Good times......Good times.......
That brush guard I have makes it nice to ride. It has places to put your feet forward of the controls. Its cool but it has its pros and cons. For one it's one more thing to remove when maintenance is done. $250 is too much for one. $150 tops. how ya making out with that rear.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I think I'm going to go with just buying the bearings and seals. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get stuff and start re-assembly. It's really muddy hear and I'm dying to ride.:naughty: My bike is very interesting to ride in the mud, it gets a little squirrely when I crack the throttle in the mud:D. When the bike gets in the mud and about any other soft place the throttle will sometimes magicaly stick it's the darndest thing can't figure it out. :twisted:.

[Dirtcrasher]

I'd rather have a cut down surface then a pitted surface that will eat the seals in no time..........................


JMHFO!!

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Oh don't worry dirtcrasher I'm going to clean them up. If I was to use the lathe method and take it down a bit and put a sleeve on, what type of metal should be used, and how would I keep the sleeve on weld it.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I got the bearings and seals in that I ordered. All I need now is the brake drum seals and the inner diff bearing.

I have another question trikeman78 the bearings I ordered from the guy on ebay that you said were different (inner diff bearing) you said it was actually the brake drum bearing. Well it is exactly the same size as the inner diff bearing. It is sealed is the only difference that I can see. Could I just buy another one of those bearings and use it as the inner diff bearing since it's the same size even though it's technically not the same bearing?

[trikeman78]

yes freak, you can use the sealed bearing in the diff. It is the same size just not an open bearing. If you think about it. It is kind of an upgrade. Even if the rear takes in water, the bearing is protected from the contaminated oil. There are two different size bearings that support the ring gear. If your going the sealed bearing route then the "outer diff bearing" that the guys sells is the same size as the larger ring gear bearing. I know for sure because I bought the "outer bearing" from him and it matched but was sealed and not open. Gotta love ebay sometimes. New bearings $10 shipped is a steal.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

I went ahead and bought all his bearings the first time but I didn't buy 2 of the inner bearings because you said they were different. I misunderstood you I thought they were different sizes not different bearings. I should have just bought 2 of them and I'd be up and riding now. All my bearings and seals I got were in great shape besides some light surface rust on the outer bearing because it had be opened but it worked great. I guess since I bought everyone of his bearings and seals he thinks there hot stuff now he raised the prices to 12.95 for the bearings.:wondering now I'll have to pay more for the same bearing I just bought but it's still way cheaper than honda so I guess I should be happy.:rolleyes:

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

On that hondabond stuff theres two different tubes on ebay, a high temp sealent and a hondabond 4 semi drying liquid sealer. Any difference between them or a particular one I need to use. Kinda high for such a little tube, can anything else be substituted for it. If not I can try the nearest dealer see if they carry any cheaper.

[trikeman78]

I used the hondabond 4 stuff. Blue tube. I dont think high temp is needed in this case. I paid $8 for the tube at the honda shop. Sometimes ebay is not always the cheapest way to go.

[HONDA_ATC_FREAK]

Ya I'm gonna have to go to the honda shop the cheapest thing I found on the internet was about 15.00.