Removing, repairing 350X head studs, snapped off, welded on or otherwise. By a MILL!

[Dirtcrasher]

Fortunately I got some 8-3 SO cord and and plug/receptacle for the Bridgeport mill recently.

I also had to buy a 3 phase converter to make it all happen on the 2 - 115V legs in the shop.

It works well, just not a true 3 phase so instant reversing and deep heavy cuts can't happen. In time I'll build my Rotary Phase Converter and thats just as good as 3 115V lines from the electrical pole 150' down my driveway...........

One head had studs that had been welded on. So I had to use a 60$ Carbide center cutting end mill to get that down to the flat surface. A casting is JUST a casting! but the hole HONDA bored for the header to go inside and that flat surface gave me some indication of where to find "0" or a near dead nuts point to work with. Otherwise I just had 4 broken/welded studs to wiork with and use a center drill to begin the hole.

I tried a series of LH drill bits and got that HONDA stud REAL thin, but extractors still couldn't remove them, even with heat! Honda "distorts" the end of the OEM stud that goes in the head so it locks in place and unfortunately it doesn't come out (unless your very lucky, or unlucky because the hole itself is worn).

Dissimilar metals are never good. Crap steel distorted and jammed into an aluminum head is never good.............

So I drilled them all out, then used a starter Helicoil tap and finished with a bottoming tap. I ended up with 4 nice new mounting holes and no damage to the small cast "bosses" on the OEM Honda heads.

4 New Helicoils went in, 15mm long (more than enough) and I have to get some SS studs or make them from fully threaded bolts to get everything squared away.

The biggest thing when drilling a hole in ANYTHING is being SPOT ON CENTER! Thats the beauty of a Milling machine, it can do anything your intelligent enough to know how to do :lol:

I don't recommend welding your studs, it makes them hard as a rock and longer to remove. Not to mention that if I break a 3/4" carbide end mill I won't be happy.

All went well, you guys should have them soon, I just need to check on the studs and lock them in place. I do recommend a self locking SS nut (with a washer) but they are tough to find without nylon in them and that stuff melts so then it's useless.........

I tried to get pics up but Photobucket is not working right today or yesterday.

Rest assured, you guys are all set :D The cam journals were very nice and thats whats tough to find with a 350X head, they are thinning out every day..............

If you have ANYTHING you need welded, fabricated, extracted, Heli-coiled or otherwise rebuilt; Please contact me. I'm much cheaper than a machine shop, just as good and try to be fair as I can.

I'll follow up with pics when PB gets rolling again!

[seadoo650]

Good to hear DC. Looking forward to seeing pics of the work. Could'nt trust anyone more with my baby. (Including the machine shop for the company I work for)

[dcreel]

I have to drill out button head rivets at work with an air drill and know how hard it is to be on center. The work you do is amazing. Thank you for helping us all out.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ My "BOSS" ran our shop and his tool bits were always squealing from 200' away :lol:

I'm no genius, but I believe in taking the time to do it once and do it right.

[bigred44]

Sounds great DC. I am so glad I decided to send it to you rather than any local machine shop. You definitely know your trailprotrailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro and I trust you working on my stuff.
Thanks again, and get some pics up!

[Dirtcrasher]

Finally got Photobucket working.


1st, I had to use a carbide mill to get the old studs exposed portion off, they were hard from welding:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0406.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0395.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0410.jpg

Once that was done I used a center drill:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0397.jpg

Then I used LH drill bits in 4 increments but NO DICE! Honda locks those studs in good!! So, after the LH drills, I went onto the hellicoil drill bit:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0415.jpg

Then I could tap them and use the spindle center as a guide for the helicoil tap:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0399.jpg

And last was the helicoil insertion, as long as I could get them:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0414.jpg

Just waiting on 8 SS studs and they will be back your way.

Both heads were in great shape, great cam journals. Brians was a bit more F'd up than the Seadoos but they both took the same amount of work. Both gasket surfaces are prepped for a gasket and or hondabond on the valve cover............

They just are not worth taking out by hand. You can break the boss right off the head and I have one of those I'll post pics of. LH drill bits did NOTHING, EXTRACTOR did NOTHING, HEAT did NOTHING; The only solution is an insert!

Fortunately I have a few crate motors and heads that I could find the average center point. Just because the casting is round, that doesn't mean that the stud goes dead nuts in the center! You have to drill right where they were done from the factory...............

Enjoy.

PS, If you cherish your part, SEND IT TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :beer

[honda250sx]

Not for nothing, but this is some top notch work right here. This is the way to do it guys. So many guys break studs off. This is really great Steve. I hate to preach it but I tell ya I never had one ounce of a bad thing to say about Steve's work. Great job Bro.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Thanks bud!! I should have that SS you sent me the link for - thank you!! Excellent quality steel, a few more days won't kill us but at almost 3$ a bolt and then more machine work, I'm glad I listened to you and pulled the trigger...... I should have looked to see if he had helicoils, I used the ones I had for these heads :(

OEM studs are nice if you never corrode them; Good luck on getting it out 25 yrs. later :D But 50,000 trikes with SS studs would have added up!

Even a good head is tough to find, give it 10 more years :lol:

Updates to come soon guys. I'll post a pic of the "bad" head I have, broken off casting boss, probably from a hand drill........ And LH drill bits, heat, KROIL or extractors DO NOT WORK!!

Hope to have these on the way home by the weekend :D

Thank god for the crate motors!!, without them I could only "assume" how Honda did it. It's tough to get good dimensions from used worn parts....

Fortunately a Milling machine is 100% adjustable :beer Gotta keep notes on these puppies.

I feel bad for the 86 200X guys, that head has very little meat on the lower casting boss. Either get it out (it may not be knurled like the 350X) or drill it, build it up with weld and start again.

[Dirtcrasher]

Got the SS studs. They will be done and back to you next week sometime.

I will PM you or you can email (you guys have the email addy) me about the cost breakdown; I was as fair as I could possibly be and I hope to get more of these in the future :beer

EDIT -And in the future, just chop those pricks off right above the aluminum boss so I don't beat on my 60$ carbide end mill :D

OEM knurled studs DO NOT COME OUT! If in the future anyone wants a "timesert", buy the kit and send it along.......

I have a 100% success ratio with helicoils!!

See if this works:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/th_HelicoilScrewThreadInserts.jpg (http://s257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/?action=view&current=HelicoilScrewThreadInserts.flv)

[ceaserthethird]

I'm Very Happy to have you on our Team DC, Few Fella's around like DC !

Keep up the Good Honest Work !

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm TRYING ceasar! Glad to know some of you understand me; I love these things and I just want to improve and preserve them!

It's a fine line between making enough cash to make it worth my while and charging the ACTUAL amount but scaring everyone away............

Next up is 6061 Aluminum air box rings so the air filter CAN'T come off when you tighten the clamp screw........(mine comes off because the plastic crushes and I take hard landings sometimes :lol:) I can make those pretty reasonable. The ones I made and have now fit the 350X and I believe the 250SX (22$ shipped). I have to get some designed for the LC 250R's also :beer

I'll start a new thread on them soon......

[oldskool83]

nice work, i just had 2 oem exhaust studs on my 250sx thread rigt out last night, nuts were rusted on. same thing happened on my xr200 and 300ex.

[bigred44]

Yea sometimes you get lucky like that. Last year when i rebuilt my 200x both studs came right out with no heat or penetrating oil. The 350x was a different story though as you can see above. DC took care of me though and now she's good as new........actually, better than new.

If anyone ever runs into these issues save yourself any aggrevation and send it to Dirtcrasher and have the piece of mind knowing it will be done right and better than orriginal.

Can't say thank you enough Steve!

[MagicJames]

I've got a 350x head that someone already had this problem with the bolts that hold the valve cover to the head, and the head studs are fine, just the other bolts are a little boogered up... Is that something you can or would even want to fix? Let me know, we don't have to talk price yet just maybe I'll send it down and you can take a look at it and let me know what you're thinking.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Thats even easier.......

I can tram the head in flat, clamp down your head and helicoil the 6mmx1.0 pitch valve cover bolts.......

You would need to pay for some helicoils, some time and labor but I'm very fair.

[Vealmonkey]

DC, I should just send you a monthly check and keep you on retainer. I might send you a head that has perfectly good studs in it just so you can do this to prevent future problems. Shame you don't live closer.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ I'm thinking about cutting myself into small pieces and shipping them to each corner and the center of the US, :lol:

I TOO, wish I lived closer. For now, all we can do is deal with the shipping costs and I always work with guys on the labor.

NOTHING is etched in stone here at Steves' ATC and Fabrication Shop........................

[Vealmonkey]

No, but maybe etched in the sand on occasion, eh? Say like after a tasty 6 pack? LOL

[Dirtcrasher]

:lol:

There is so much I can do, and I give everyone a 100% satisfaction guarantee too!

I'm NO EXPERT, But I try to imagine these things (unfortunatly usually at 3AM) before I dive into a project. MANY of you have parts which are very dear and rare to you which I respect,,,

So many things can be made custom, improved, spacers made, gussets and so on. Trust me, if I were taking home the 1300$ a week I use to, I wouldn't even bother with this stuff aside for myself and my immediate friends.......

Times have changed! I drop prices like a bad date (when she announces Tyrone to have been her ex man) :lol: Not to mention that I ENJOY fixing peoples problems and improving on designs etc etc. Some things may be a ton of work, others, not so bad. I feel very fortunate to still have my home and a shop I can make stuff in...........

I fixed TWO friggen 8i5 200X brake pedal pivots and levers. Haven't even recouped 50% of my investment. Thats the stuff that frustrates me but I keep pushing forwards seeking my niche'

I was out there the other night until 3AM, but I got what I wanted done, DONE!!

I gotta go do those SS head studs, stay tuned to the DC channel :D

Pat, bear in mind that if you wanted to come up I have a spare bedroom and spare trikes to enjoy on my track while I work.

It won't hurt you guys to ASK (send me pics, thoughts and a request) about anything you want done and or improved!! Same guarantee!! Most anything can be repaired!

If I had enough work, I'd use a credit card for a 3500$ TIG welder and fix all these left 250R cases which are now discontinued. My current shop has it's limitations but they aren't very prohibiting...

THINGS CHANGE!! I could be available for a month or 2 years........... :beer I can't forecast the future............................................ ................

[Grizzlypeg]

How do you centre the centre drill on the milled off studs? I'm a lathe guy and not a mill man. I'm used to things being concentric. Do you just eyeball it?

[Vealmonkey]

You better quit inviting me. LOL I'm afraid I would be a bad influence upon you. I have been taught in the school of Louis Mielke....."Just doooooooooo it!" LOL We coined the term Nos'some here at my house. I don't get out very often and it gets a little crazy when I do. Last time I visited my best buddy down in Hollywood, Fl, his brothers' wife almost divorced him, and he's a lawyer! LOL I have often been many peoples excuse as the "bad example". I'm not really a bad person, but I do like to have fun. I hardly drink. I like good food. I tend to stir crap sometimes. LOL I love to listen to and tell a good story. I often attract the wrong kind of women. LOL I like mechanical things and turning wrenches. I like being on the fringe. And I have often been accused of being a bad influence on children. Are you scared yet? LOL

[fabiodriven]

I have been taught in the school of Louis Mielke....."Just doooooooooo it!" LOL LOL

That's like the Deepa "Run it" slogan.

Anyhoo, I don't like Steve's work. I have found that roofing nails, tree bark, and electrical tape work just fine.:D

[tecat-z]

Great work Steve. Sometimes these kinds of snags can be the difference is keeping our 3wheelers is motion, or simply giving up. Glad we have some passionate and intellegent people here with the tools, machines and the intellegence to help out those who simply have no where to turn. We all want to believe we can fix anything ourselves. But there are times where certain jobs are left to people like Steve......Just want to say thanks as a fellow triker. Hope to see ya TF again sometime too.........

[Dirtcrasher]

How do you centre the centre drill on the milled off studs? I'm a lathe guy and not a mill man. I'm used to things being concentric. Do you just eyeball it?

If you can't get the stud out (which I could not) you start with a tiny center drill and just tap it against the stud face. tap, tap, tap..... With the table locked in the X and Y motion, now I just force the table over a hair one way or another until it's dead nuts, then move up to a # 2 or #3 center drill and you'll know if your centered. You can't go real deep until it's spot on or the drill is being forced sideways and snaps..........

The only way I could find the perfect vertical position was to use a crate motor and that copper gasket flat area is perpendicular to the head studs.......... :D

[Dirtcrasher]

They are on the way back guys, I couldn't ship them till this AM, Monday was Memorial Day etc.

Will post pics tonite.

You should see them about Friday.

DC

[Texas 200x]

I love reading your posts DC your always up to something cool. Not just correcting people who's timing must be "90" out.:lol: You really have some good talent, keep up the good work!

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Glad to hear, got any work to send my way?? :D

I'm running DRY right now, need more work!!

Where areb all the worn 83-85 200X pedals guys?? I'm tooled up, and ready to go!! Let's go, I'm tired of doing one or 2, I need to be doing MULTIPLES!!

[Dirtcrasher]

Studs installed, about 2mm's - appx .080 longer than stock as I was hoping you could get a THICK washer behind there and a true "all metal" self locking nut (probably a 14MM head on an 8x1.25 thread) Thats what those studs need in my opinion......

Here are the pics of the 2 heads sent back today.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0417.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0418.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0419.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0420.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0421.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh220/Dirtcrasher/101_0422.jpg

Both have great gasket sealing surfaces , GREAT cam journals (MOST IMPORTANT) and the other threads appeared good, I didn't even run a tap into them. We've all learned that some things are better left untouched...

The 200X heads are toughter to do, not much meat left in there after it's drilled out...

I could keep your costs down by doing 2 at a time, rather than moving the mill head back and forth constantly; That in itself helped us quite a bit in keeping the costs lower....

Shoot me an email guys unless you know how to use Paypal withOUT me absorbing a fee or just send me a check.

On another note, anyone can feel free to send me any frozen bolts, calipers, bent stuff - you name it and I can probably get it done and or improved..... Just call me, email me and we can discuss options.

This machine shop gig works for me right now, but I could be back to full time work at any moment........

DC

[tanks350x]

That stuff looks awesome DC ,,,great job as usual

[MagicJames]

Are you doing any port work or anything like that?

[Dirtcrasher]

Are you doing any port work or anything like that?

I'll never claim to do anything I can't do with confidence. Smoothing out cast port irregularities - yes....

Full on making things flow better and testing with a flow bench? Nope, don't have that - yet :naughty:

Anyone get a head back yet? Bueller? Bueller?

[bigred44]

Didn't come today.. Hopefully tomorrow.

[seadoo650]

Not yet here Steve. Maybe Today or Monday.

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm confused.......

I have a letter in my INBOX on 6/4/10 at 11:03AM from BIGRED that said he got it and sent the money, the same day in this topic he said he didn't get it and that was about 12 hours later??... I did get the payment though, thank you! :D And thank for using the gift option so no fees were applied :beer:

They say 2-3 days (shipped on Wednesday) and I got delivery tracking on both, I'll check it out.

[Dirtcrasher]

Here's the both of them

Detailed Results:

Bullet Arrival at Post Office, June 05, 2010, 7:41 am, ASHLEY, OH 43003
Bullet Processed through Sort Facility, June 05, 2010, 2:36 am, COLUMBUS, OH 43218
Bullet Processed through Sort Facility, June 03, 2010, 5:10 pm, NASHUA, NH 03063 (I love how it goes up to NH to go down to OH.):rolleyes:
Bullet Acceptance, June 02, 2010, 12:19 pm, MIDDLEBORO, MA 02346

Other:

Detailed Results:

Bullet Sorting Complete, June 05, 2010, 8:52 am, COLUMBIA CROSS ROADS, PA 16914
Bullet Arrival at Post Office, June 05, 2010, 8:04 am, COLUMBIA CROSS ROADS, PA 16914
Bullet Acceptance, June 02, 2010, 12:18 pm, MIDDLEBORO, MA 02346

Maybe he thought another package was the head but it sounds like they are both gonna be delivered today.......

[seadoo650]

Yes Steve. I just received it. It looks great. Anyone needed this or any similar type of work done, I highly recommend sendind it to Steve. He keeps you in the loop all the time and his fee's are very resonable. I sent this head to a machine shop at the company I work for first because I was told it would be about $10-$15 per stud. He told me three weeks later (prolly after is set on the floor the whole time) that is would be way more to do it. I said send it back. I believe if I would have had him do it that it could have turned out bad and been around $200 for the work. I contacted Steve directly after and he said "bring it on" and made me aware of about how much it could cost. He was dead on with the price and quality. Thanks DC.



Oh yea.....................Money sent!!!!!!!

[Dirtcrasher]

Your welcome!!

It IS easily 200$ worth of work but doing 2 helped a bit. Fark, the 7 mile bicycle trip to the Post Office was worth 200$ :lol:

I try to keep costs low in hopes of more work but IDT trikes are the way to go with machining - too many guys seems broke here.......

[Vealmonkey]

If I could ever find a decent frame, I would love to send you some work. I may be heading up to PA tomorrow so I'm going to see about sending a couple sets of 200x brake pedals. Things seem to be feast or famine. People have time to work on trikes if they are out of work, but don't have the funds they need, or if you are working, you just don't have to time to work on trikes or nobody is selling any parts I need to finish projects. I really wish I had a frame up to you so you could be working on that. It's kind of driving me nuts. LOL

[Dirtcrasher]

Well VM, I guess the "good" or "bad" news (mentally differently on a daily basis....) Is that I HAVE THE TIME NOW! And I'm willing to bet that I have another year of this.

I do not have a family, just pets; So I can roll the dice. I'm not dropping from 75K a year to 18$ and hour UNLESS there is room for severe and immediate change based on my abilities.

Truthfully though, I just want some work. And I'm more than capable and extremely fair to everyone. I lost my shirt on 2 0r 3 of the "projects" that people wanted and then jumped off. I ate it all and it wasn't anything cheap. I honestly look forward to the day everything is gone and trike lovers are scratching their heads. At that point, the few guys that can machine stuff can get trhe 85$ an hour a shop charges........................................... ................sad.

We'll get you a frame soon Pat!! Gotta get a 450R master on there too at the same time.......... I have a new one to test fit, you'll have to mess with a new line and the reservoir line.

[Vealmonkey]

You should make a list of all the stuff I need to get besides the frame, since decent frames don't seem to exist right now. At least I can be picking up those other parts. And it's not like the house doesn't already look like a parts warehouse as it is. LOL What's funny is, I have a Tiger frame laying around, but I can't seem to find a decent 86 350x frame, now who would have ever convinced me that would happen.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! All you'd need is a new 450R master and any resi that fits well. I still have to make sure I can get it all set up dead on...........

I already cut your gussets :lol: I'm just waiting on the frame!!

It's OK, I still have to stretch that 70 and finish the rear suspension. (then the front) I had HIGH HOPES today and then looked at the lawn. 4 hours later I was one dead SOB................

Tomorrow I have work (GOOD) and I'll be beat. Next week I hope................

[Vealmonkey]

You know, I don't have cell phone or cable, but the 2 big luxuries I do have, the computer and a guy that cuts my grass! LOL I always hated to have to bust my butt on the 1 day off I usually get and since the company has been sticking me with lots of OT this year, well, they are paying for my lawn service. And my lawn has never looked better. I spray some grass and weed killer in the cracks of the concrete and my grass guy is really happy and he is only charging me $25 to cut the grass. I just need to get some of that weed and feed down and my lawn will really be looking sharp. The neighbors hate me, even more than usual. LOL

[bigred44]

I'm confused.......

I have a letter in my INBOX on 6/4/10 at 11:03AM from BIGRED that said he got it and sent the money, the same day in this topic he said he didn't get it and that was about 12 hours later??... I did get the payment though, thank you! :D And thank for using the gift option so no fees were applied :beer:

They say 2-3 days (shipped on Wednesday) and I got delivery tracking on both, I'll check it out.

Sorry to be confusing Steve. I sent you an e-mail Friday stating that i sent you the money, NOT that i had recieved the part yet. I did however get it Saturday so all is good.