Big Thanks to woodsrider and DC another 250sx question

[m brater]

I got the output shaft back in THANKS to woodsrider and DC! The reason I took it out was to get the drive shaft out that broke. That is fixed now too. I'm pretty sure I got it back right. When I broke the drive shaft I might have messed up the tranny. I can't get neutral with the right side engine cover is off,is that normal because the internal clutch can't work until its all back together?

[rdlsz24]

Are you physically not able to get it into neutral or are you going by the neutral light? The switch for the light is on the right side cover.

Rob

[m brater]

Right side cover is off,not able to get neutral to make it roll. I'm wondering if its because the internal clutch cannot work without right engine cover all back together?

[Dirtcrasher]

I think this was a couple/few months back?? Anyhow, it should roll just fine as it is..... The right side cover doesn't prevent neutral.

It's easy to put a gear on the countershaft backwards or miss a thrust washer or put any washer in the wrong spot....

The 1st thing that goes in is the thrust washer, then if everything is in right you should get all your gears and neutral.

Anyhow, it's easy to slide the driveshaft back and get the countershaft out again to check everything. Unless you couldn't find neutral before, you should be able to get it there now. You never touched the shift drum or forks so it's not that but a gear might be upside down............

A backwards gear gear may still engage, but it's only BARELY engaging. Thats why that washer left out ruins so many SX's of there 1st gear in time. It works at first, then BYE BYE!

It's even easier to mess it up if it's been apart for awhile. I usually zip tie everything together so I don't screw it up; We all screw up :D

[Woodsrider]

I don't think he took the cases apart, so he can't have a gear on the countershaft backwards....it must be something else. m brater...are you sure that you got the thrust washer in place(all the way at the right side end of the countershaft...just inside/right up against the case(on the inside))?
Or maybe it's something simple...are you rocking the machine a little so it "clicks" into the next gear instead of "hanging up" in between gears? Maybe your reverse safety is not working and you are down in reverse, but you think it's neutral because the shifter is at the "bottom".
There's also a good chance that something is messed up in your tranny because of the output gear breaking....hope not. Good luck.

[m brater]

It will shift two times up and then nothing and then back down two like shifter feels like neutral. I rock it back and forth while shifting and it won't hit neutral. Back when I broke it was the drive shaft that broke so I took out the counter shaft to get to it easier OPPS! How would I get it out or reverse with right side and reverse lever off? If it is stuck in reverse.

[Woodsrider]

It's not stuck in reverse if it will shift up two gears and then back down two gears. I misunderstood what happened to your trike...I thought that your output drive unit broke and that you were putting in a new one...sounds like something is binding in your tranny...maybe a bent shift fork...I'm really just guessing...I don't know.

[Dirtcrasher]

Well, then you tell me?? How long ago did you put it back together??

It sounds like you made a mistake putting the countershaft back in. At least a couple of those gears CAN go in backwards and would definitely cause shifting issues.

I haven't ridden my SX in awhile but neutral is all the way down, then SL,1,2,3,4 although I always called them a "5 speed"

[Woodsrider]

Well, then you tell me?? How long ago did you put it back together??

It sounds like you made a mistake putting the countershaft back in. At least a couple of those gears CAN go in backwards and would definitely cause shifting issues.

I haven't ridden my SX in awhile but neutral is all the way down, then SL,1,2,3,4 although I always called them a "5 speed"

I'm having trouble following this....are you saying that there are a couple of gears that can get reversed(flipped over) even if the cases have NOT been split(like I mentioned in post #5)...or are you thinking that he split the cases and had it all apart?
Either way, I would like to know if m brater did this without splitting the cases(could you please verify)...AND... I would like to know also if it is in fact possible to "flip over" some of the gears while they are stacked in a row inside the cases while the countershaft is removed....by mistake...

[m brater]

No I did not split the cases.The only gear that I had out was the second one in from the output gear,it came out w/shaft. I just took it over to local Honda dealer and he thinks I might have bent or broke a shift fork when I broke the driveshaft from getting stuck.Funny thing is it will roll in reverse but the motor turns over with it,like it might be stuck in reverse. Dealer mechanic said 700-800$ to fix. I paid 800 for it,screw that. I just got the shaft back in two days ago.

[cattle-dog]

i have several lowerends of 250s with good working trannys if you need parts give me a pm i maybe able to help you out so you can get your wheeler going

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm having trouble following this....are you saying that there are a couple of gears that can get reversed(flipped over) even if the cases have NOT been split(like I mentioned in post #5)...or are you thinking that he split the cases and had it all apart?
Either way, I would like to know if m brater did this without splitting the cases(could you please verify)...AND... I would like to know also if it is in fact possible to "flip over" some of the gears while they are stacked in a row inside the cases while the countershaft is removed....by mistake...

He pulled out the countershaft, these few shaft drives allow that but then every gear in there is loose. It's up the mechanic to get them in right......

Gear centers are not centered, they are offset one way or the other. If the diagram doesn't show it, you have to understand it. Flip it around and stuff binds up or won't move at all.

The last countershaft I yanked out out gave me at least 3 gears left in there to plat wi8th one way or another. If you waited 3 months to do it and don't understand how it all works, your screwed.

Unless I'm mistaken, I walked you through this months ago...... Thats when it was fresh for all of us.

I tried to fix this months back, while things were fresh; At this point I am sorry but I give up..................

[m brater]

DC that was'nt me. I just started to work on this a week or so ago,got the shaft in a couple days ago. None the less thanks for the posting what you did back then. I was able to dig it up in archives and learn from it. I think it went back right,I just tore up some shift forks when I broke the drive shaft. Thanks to everyone for the help. I learned alot from this.

[Woodsrider]

Yeah...it was me that DC helped a few months back....and I just wasn't able to get the countershaft in the last 3/8 of an inch....sooo close(I tried over and over again...same result)....but I chose to split the cases instead of taking the chance of possibly damaging something by forcing the countershaft the last 3/8 of an inch....I figured there was something binding that I just couldn't see.

So..what are you going to do with your engine....rebuild or replace?

[Dirtcrasher]

DC that was'nt me. I just started to work on this a week or so ago,got the shaft in a couple days ago. None the less thanks for the posting what you did back then. I was able to dig it up in archives and learn from it. I think it went back right,I just tore up some shift forks when I broke the drive shaft. Thanks to everyone for the help. I learned alot from this.

Sorry, I forget who mI helped because they didn't post the conclusion or I missed it??!!

Even though the driveshaft broke, was the right angle housing damaged?? That thing is in there SOLID. I can't imagine a shift for being damaged but the sudden jolt may have screwed up the common failure points under the left cover or the lighting coil and pulse generator cover. Check it out before you split the case!! The shock may have snapped that pin in there.....

Woods rider - I KNOW I could have got that in!! Oh well, at least it's done........ If I could teach a 12yo kid and his father how to do it over the phone, I think I can teach anyone :D

[Woodsrider]

Woods rider - I KNOW I could have got that in!! Oh well, at least it's done........ If I could teach a 12yo kid and his father how to do it over the phone, I think I can teach anyone :D

Yeah...I KNOW you could have. I got it in almost all the way...the countershaft was out through the other side of the case...and I tried forcing it a little with the 3 allan screws...but I just figured it was better to split the cases than to destroy something needlessly.

I would have liked to have tried it while on the phone with you....but I hate to ask of peoples time like that...I know that I don't have enough hours in the day to do everything that I want to do....so I know it's like that for others too....and you had already been very generous with your time with all the info that you had already given me to help with my fix....I just don't have your experience....This was my first bottom end that I tore apart and put back together(I tore apart a 200X engine before that...but it's still in pieces ) so I decided it was better to be cautious with these old parts(even though I have 7 of these engines lying around lol).
I have one engine with the "90 degree drive unit" busted and I will try it one more time, but I will place the engine on it's side before I start so nothing moves....the first time I tried this was with an engine that someone else had removed the unit and god knows how the engine had beeen tossed around before I tried following your directions....who knows....maybe it makes no difference...

[Dirtcrasher]

It's not your fault, so many guys see those 3 bolts and the countershaft pulls right out so how can you be blamed?? Lots of people don't know that the driveshaft is "spring loaded" and it can slide back. It's still a beyatch any way you slice it...............

I bought one 10 years ago that was popping out of 1st, I found that DREADED thrust washer in the tranny and thats when I started learning about the whole dealio.

[m brater]

Thanks, I will take off the left cover. Where is this pin located? I remember something about it being a weak point on the design of the SX.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Open it up, you'll find it if there's an issue in there.

While your at at, spin the rear tires forwards and watch the shift mechanism while you up/downshift..............

[cattle-dog]

weak point ? in a sx? say it isnt so! keep it down my sx maybe listening.