No spark on 1984 ATC200ES, Help Please

[puggerton03]

I just picked up a 1984 atc 200ES Big Red. It has no spark. The guy said it needs a coil. It might because the coil side of the plug wire easily pulls in and out of the coil hole. What is the best place to get a coil with fast shipping? Also with the battery in it the nuetral light comes on but it wont crank? Bad starter? Any help would be appreciated.

[cox]

Welcome to my nightmare man. :(

[4cylinders]

hey, with that model the starter will work with the kill switch off, but it won't start. make sure the switch is in the on position.

[tri again]

I just picked up a 1984 atc 200ES Big Red. It has no spark. The guy said it needs a coil. It might because the coil side of the plug wire easily pulls in and out of the coil hole. What is the best place to get a coil with fast shipping? Also with the battery in it the nuetral light comes on but it wont crank? Bad starter? Any help would be appreciated.

i got the SAME thng going on right now so very interested in the comments to come.

Gotta file loan mod papers right now but will be back soon and then its TRIKE time.

as i recall, my 84 only had spark withOUT the battery connected...so i walked away from it and bought an sx that RAN.

gf gets the sx so now I gotta get back to the misbehaving es 84

try it without the battery circuit energized. There are a few extra safety cutoff switches like it wont start unless its in neutral and NOT in reverse...2 more reasons for it to not spark

[atctim]

with a bad coil it should still turn over. You say the neutral light comes on - but does the battery have enough juice to light the headlight? Turn the key on then turn on your headlight - if it is on and bright - your battery should have enough juice to try to turn the starter over. If not - try charging the battery or jump starting it off a car or garden tractor or another ATV or even a jump pack.

These 84 big reds do seem to have CDI troubles. Get your coil fixed - a new one can be had cheaply through www.dratv.com - and then find a CDI - they can be had new also - but are a bit pricey - at around $100 if I remember correctly. DO NOT buy from the guy on ebay selling them for $27.99 and listed for the 82,83, and 84 model - the 1984 CDI will only work with a 1984 model. His are only good for 82 and 83 models. Don't get burned there!

Start there!

[tri again]

I just picked up a 1984 atc 200ES Big Red. It has no spark. The guy said it needs a coil. It might because the coil side of the plug wire easily pulls in and out of the coil hole. What is the best place to get a coil with fast shipping? Also with the battery in it the nuetral light comes on but it wont crank? Bad starter? Any help would be appreciated.

you can ohm the coil to see if its ok..cheaper and faster than getting a new one.

volt ohm meters are 2 bucks at harbor freight and test / spec procedures are free on here.

you could disconnect the key switch completely since they only kill the spark.
in other words, there really is NO - ON, just off. for the ignition circuit..

key on with the battery just completes the circuit for the battery, starter and charging system but also activates the safety cutoffs for neutral and reverse. you can short out the fat wires across the solenoid to see if the starter runs btw

The neutral safety switch and reverse cut off might be under some cover under the right side of the engine.

Havent made it THAT far yet. but also have 3 different model years bouncing in my head right now.


the 84 will run with no battery at all so disconnect it, make sure your left side kill switch is 'on', as in NOT off and pull the rope with the plug out where you can see it and IF itt sparks.

[honda200x1987]

Sounds like you need to cut about 1/4 inch or so but not much off of the coil wire on both ends and re-attach it. Maybe your coil wire is not getting a good connection to the cap or coil itself. If you plan on replacing your CDI box , there will be a number on the cdi it is "969" and there are only 2 models this box is made for. the 1985 TRX125 and the 1984 ATC200ES BIG RED. I know because I owned both models, and yes i have had to replace my CDI before to, that could possibly be your problem to. You might need to replace your battery or charge it, it could be it has enough charge to like up the nuetral light only. It will fire and run without a battery, just use the pull start.

[puggerton03]

i think the battery is dead too. it lit up the nuetral switch but not the headlight. that was with a battery tender on it too. yes i made sure the on switch was on and the key switch was on and tried the pull start too, nothing. i did cut back both ends of the plug wire but it seems to be real loose on the coil side. i can pull it out and push it in real easy. i guess ill try the coil first and go from there. i bought this thing yesterday for $125 so i want to make sure it runs good before i dump alot of money into it. any fuses or anything else on this trike that would cause it to not spark using the pull-start?

[big danno]

Sounds like your coil is missing the srew that the wire threads onto.If it is then a new coil will be the fix for that.If that does not prduce spark the I would look into the coil on the stator next as they tend to go bad on all the cdi engines similar to yours.If thats is not the problem then I would next try the cdi box . unless you have a wiring problem those are the main things to make spark happen.
All that being said,more than likley if the plug wire could not make connection with the coil then it probably fried the cdi because if the spark cant make it to ground then the cdi box will self destruct because it cant get rid of the built up energy it has and it has to do somting with it so it goes boom

[tri again]

i think the battery is dead too. it lit up the nuetral switch but not the headlight. that was with a battery tender on it too. yes i made sure the on switch was on and the key switch was on and tried the pull start too, nothing. i did cut back both ends of the plug wire but it seems to be real loose on the coil side. i can pull it out and push it in real easy. i guess ill try the coil first and go from there. i bought this thing yesterday for $125 so i want to make sure it runs good before i dump alot of money into it. any fuses or anything else on this trike that would cause it to not spark using the pull-start?


ALL great comments.
My stator coil ohmed out good but was not producing enough current.

My idea is to concentrate on spark and run, period. Pull ropes are 3 bucks.

Once that gets dependable, then I'll look into a 50$ battery, light bulbs, starter rebuild, and regulator/solenoid etc.

Mine is like a lot of others.
spark and then no spark and almost always, for no particular reason.

Runs great for a minute or a day and then either starts immediately or won't start for an hour or a day or 2. Then it has spark again, for no real good reason.

I even took KNOWN WORKING parts from, well, known working trikes (i have 2 other 84 es's).
coil, cdi, pulse gen etc
Spark! yay! ...then NOT

so its not really even temperature dependent, cleaned checked ohmed everythng many times.

The folks who HAVE gotten out of this pattern say a new harness is cheap and takes less time to mess with than all this other stuff.
Even if the old harness is not bad, their trikes run prob just from going thru and touching/reconnecting EVERYthing.

I gave up and bought an 86sx because it was ugly and RUNS! but gf jumped on it and I haven't seen her since, so I guess I gotta get the 84 going, like it or not.

[puggerton03]

i just ordered a new ignition coil. hopefully it will get here quick. i checked the kill switch and it seems to be in good shape. no broken wires, not grounding out in run position. im going to look at the key switch next. if one of the two tube fuses are bad would that cause no spark?

[tri again]

i just ordered a new ignition coil. hopefully it will get here quick. i checked the kill switch and it seems to be in good shape. no broken wires, not grounding out in run position. im going to look at the key switch next. if one of the two tube fuses are bad would that cause no spark?

I cant see a fuse killing spark but I DO remember a funny thing I had.

If my neutral light was ON!!!!!! follow me here, it wouldn't run.

Starter would spin, neutral light ON..NO SPARK!

so i dosconnected the battery, key on, switch on amd I had spark with no neutral light.

it ran for a few minutes, so I hooked up the battery and had NO neutral light but it started and ran a few minutes tthen died.

My friend hit me in the shoulder and pointed to the neutral light and it was ON!!!!!! but I had no spark and it wouldn't run.

so I dosconnected the battery and went and bought the 85sx.

Frustrating?

you bet. just try not to take it too personally

I'll prob go back out since its stopped snowing and get back to it.

and IF it DOES run, I'll prob still be aggravated

I have 2 other 84 's that run so I can steal known working parts but it doesn't help and we are 2 of about 10 people right now with the exact same problem

I really hope its just your coil or something else simple.

lets keep the ideas coming.

[zppeacock]

I took my es200 out today, ran perfect. I only have had no spark once while I was riding it. I dont know what I did to fix it but it has been fine ever since. Its been over a year too.

[ilmoakw]

Sounds like you need to cut about 1/4 inch or so but not much off of the coil wire on both ends and re-attach it. Maybe your coil wire is not getting a good connection to the cap or coil itself. If you plan on replacing your CDI box , there will be a number on the cdi it is "969" and there are only 2 models this box is made for. the 1985 TRX125 and the 1984 ATC200ES BIG RED. I know because I owned both models, and yes i have had to replace my CDI before to, that could possibly be your problem to. You might need to replace your battery or charge it, it could be it has enough charge to like up the nuetral light only. It will fire and run without a battery, just use the pull start.

The 1984 TRX200 uses the 969 as well.... then again it's just a big red with a front end grafted on...

[puggerton03]

well i got the coil this morning. put it on and no spark. i took it back off and cleaned up the mounting areas, the one small ground down next to the hi/low lever and i took the cdi pick-up off and scuffed that up along with the rotor. i saw spark like three different times. only once though on the first pull after i messed with something. should i replace the cdi next? is the cdi just the little pick-up and the rotor? also where the two cdi wires run up and plug into the harness the connectors look a little oxidized. i was just going to splice them together? also where is the stator? i was told that could be the problem as well.

[atctim]

Do not confuse the CDI box with the pick up cover on the side of the motor that says "CDI". Your CDI box is a black plastic box. It will be located under the gas tank and it looks like this

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/images/20-5344.jpg

[puggerton03]

what is the thing under the housing marked "cdi" called? sorry for all the rookie questions.

[puggerton03]

well i have spark now and i got it running! no smoke and tranny seems real strong. i dont know what i did maybe the part of the head i was holding the plug against was too oxidized or something. i dont know. it has a miss in the throttle. one of the headpipe bolts are missing and the other one is loose so hopefully after i fix that my miss will go away. but im stoked for now.

[tundrawolf]

That's great news! Anyone have a schematic for this model? I'd like to look into the neutral light thing.

[MonroeMike]

http://www.3wheelerworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85510&d=1261802032

[tundrawolf]

If the battery is connected, and the neutral switch is disconnected, does it get spark, then?

[tri again]

If the battery is connected, and the neutral switch is disconnected, does it get spark, then?

ahh HA!
bingo another twist.

Since we know these 200 es models will run withOUT a battery, that means no neutral light no neutral safety switch activated etc etc (in theory) The neutral light might try to glow when you try to pull start it withOUT the battery hooked up.

If you read my previous post, mine would only fire if the neutral light was OFF.
Battery connected, neutrallight on? NO spark.

Battery DISconnected so obviously no neutral light..SPARK!

Neutral light on? NO spark

so now here's your question...I think the neutral light neutral safety switch just keeps the starter from spinning but now I gotta check.

Thanks

oh, I also heard the of you ground the neutral safety switch wire , it kinda bypasses it and will allow it to run or start or something but your neutrallight will always be on, even when its in gear. AND it COULD start in gear~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


..but it bypasses the question of whether your neutral switch is messing you up.

[puggerton03]

when i sanded down the rotor and pick-up under the cover marked cdi i moved the rotor without pulling it over. could that be causing my miss? if so how do i get it set again? i dont have a battery for this anymore. i got rid of it because it was dead. when i pull it over my neutral light illuminates and when i put it in reverse the reverse illuminates without a battery.

[tundrawolf]

Dr. Joe, technically all the neutral light indicator switch does is provide ground to illuminate a light in the dash, and provide ground for the starter button, as a secondary switch for the starter system. Technically, in the case of the starter bypass relay, if you disconnect the neutral safety switch, you will not be able to use the starter motor, unless you permanently ground it, in which case you are right-the neutral light would always be on and you WILL be able to start it in gear.

Now, here's a question: Obviously without the battery you are on pull start duty, but with the battery and the light on, when you say you have no spark, is it by the pull start and electric start both?

[patco]

Hi folks,

Having similar issues here. Can anyone tell me how to ground the neutral switch? I see one two-prong plug (yellow) and one single connector (red) leading up from the neutral switch. Which wires need to be grounded permanently to the frame?

Thanks!

[patco]

anyone know how to ground the neutral switch?

[TeamGeek6]

"Runs great for a minute or a day and then either starts immediately or won't start for an hour or a day or 2. Then it has spark again, for no real good reason."

Thats bad wiring/connectors. Electrical/electronic gizmos dont just stop and start working for no good reason.

[honda200x1987]

I had the very same problem with my 84 200es. Sometimes it would start and other days it would not have a spark at all, it was the CDI "969" box. I changed it and it fixed it, ran perfect and started every time after that. The 1985 HONDA TRX125 ATV has the same CDI 969 BOX AS THE 1984 200ES BIG RED . """" one other thing!!! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE JUMPER CABLES TO START IT! THIS WILL DAMAGE YOUR CDI AND WIRING , A car battery has too stronge of a voltage. I beleive this is what happened to my CDI.

[cbx1170]

neutral light switch wire is light green ... and on many Hondas and I think this one had a red tracer line down it. Ground that and light is on all time and will start even if in gear. DO NOT sand pulser / magnets on advancer under CDI cover. Clean them. Contact cleaner derust / remove red rust oxide Scotch brite mayyybe. lube advancer bushings/sleeves. careful advancer can be assy 180 off. slightly tighten springs if needed.

Or go here and read its a little long but it works. "84 Big Red 200S Runs then looses spark" 2 wks ago.

I have jump started hundreds of bikes atcs atvs pwcs power products ALL BRANDS and never damaged any part of elec system OTHER than accidentally by stupidly reversing jump cables. the individual systems only draws what it needs, current wise, as long as the voltage is correct.

[cox]

I dont see a voltage difference between automotive and ATV/utility batteries. I have used my Optima redtop to jump my 200ES many times with no issues. Correct me if im wrong, cause ill stop using it then..... lol