need help getting my front brakes on 350x

[QCR77]

sup guys, the brakes i ordered from a board member showed up today and the first thing i did was take an inventory of new hardware to get at home depot. got back with the goods and got the master on the bars but i go to put the caliper on and i cant separate the pads/compress the calipers. now when i first opened the package i played with it and could spread the pads with just my fingers. but before i went to the depot i sprayed everything down with brake parts cleaner cause the whole thing was real dirty. got back, blew it off with air and put the master on. the other thing i find odd is that the lever does work and closes the pads real good (still has fluid in it) but when i unscrewed the small zert that i figured was the bleeder, no air or fluid came out. anybody wanna school me a little in these brakes? i can take pics if it will help

[Yamaha_Rules69]

You have to use a C clamp to push the piston back into the caliper, it is out too far from the brakes being worn out. Put the clamp on either the inside pad, or remove the pads and press on it directly, until the piston goes all the way down, then your pads will fit right in, and you will be able to assemble it. On the bleeder screw, you should hold in the front brake lever while you crack it open with your other hand. Watch out so it dosnt spray you in the eyes. If you try squeezing and cracking, and nothing comes out, the bleeder screw itself might have some dirt in it, blocking the fluid. If this is the case, you will have to try to replace the screw, or clean it. Make sure you take the cap off the resovoir at the bars, and keep an eye on the fluid level so it dosnt get too low while bleeding the system. Sometimes pumping the lever, holding it, and cracking the valve dosnt work, and you will have to find a mighty vac, or suringe to purge the system. Good luck, try the above and see what happens!

[QCR77]

thanks YR69. im gonna go try what you said and i'll be right back. i just dont know if i can take a pad out or have room to clamp the inner one. anyway thanks for the reply i'll BRB

[JohnR.]

I've had cases where the bleeder is plugged up with crud. The first thing I do is pull the bleeder out and clean all its passages with a piece of wire. I have found a pair of large channel locks works very well for compressing the pads.

John

[QCR77]

alright thanks for the tips. i got it all on the bike and bled it 3 times, then went for a test drive and they did work but not untill after you pumped it once. so it was like you're cruisin' , squeeze em' and nothin but then on the next squeeze they would work. do i need to bleed them more? bleed them but only barely crack the bleeder? can you bleed it from the top somewhere?

[atc350xer]

A C-clamp is your friend... also, make sure you close the bleeder before you let off the brake lever!

Also, I just used a clear piece of hose about 18" long, squeezed it over the bleeder, and siphoned by mouth, closing it finger tight with the hose on... the good part of doing it this way is, the fluid's surface tension keeps it in the tube, so if you do mess up and let go of the lever before the bleeder is closed, it just sucks fluid from the hose back in.

[QCR77]

i'll go clean out the passage like johnR suggested and bleed them again, but if anyone wants to chime in please do

[Vealmonkey]

Yep, they are going to need bled more. It may take you several times. Make sure you have plenty of brake fluid handy. Also a second set of hands can come in real handy. Keep up the good work.

[Dirtcrasher]

CHECK THE BLEED SCREW!!Then it won't or BARELY bleeds.

Many get over-tightened and it squashes the end. I drill out the inside and the 2 bleed screws myself........I lathe up the tapered end,,,,,

I never "push" in dirty pistons. I use a brass brush and a brass wire brush all around to get it all clean/good and or piston problems go back into the caliper.

With 2 piston fronts (like the 350X, both LC 250R's) I use the pad to shove both pistons now cleaned and lubed back in....................

GLUCK,
Steve
DC

[QCR77]

alright i cleaned out the entire system with air and patience. i disconnected the line at the master and caliper, blew that out forever. then i took out the little rubber seal type thing and blew out the master. then i took out the bleeder and blew through that for a while and the same for the caliper with that screw out. all is clean (that fluid it came with was almost mud). now , whats the trick to getting the fluid back in the line and the air out so i can bleed it a bunch? i hooked everything back up and filled up the master and just sat there pumping the lever but only got micro bubbles in return. there has to be a logical/quicker way to get back to a starting point lol

[QCR77]

oops double post

[QCR77]

CHECK THE BLEED SCREW!!Then it won't or BARELY bleeds.

Many get over-tightened and it squashes the end. I drill out the inside and the 2 bleed screws myself........I lathe up the tapered end,,,,,

I never "push" in dirty pistons. I use a brass brush and a brass wire brush all around to get it all clean/good and or piston problems go back into the caliper.

With 2 piston fronts (like the 350X, both LC 250R's) I use the pad to shove both pistons now cleaned and lubed back in....................

GLUCK,
Steve
DC

so there is 2 bleeders on theis thang? where is the other one?

[atc350xer]

the fast way is to loosen the oil bolt just to get the line filled, then go back to the bleeder

[QCR77]

the fast way is to loosen the oil bolt just to get the line filled, then go back to the bleeder

which one is considered the oil bolt

[JohnR.]

I'm guessing he means the 12mm "banjo bolt" that holds the front brake hose onto the caliper. When my front caliper on my R needed a rebuild it was acting like it wasn't fully bled even when it was.

John

[QCR77]

ok thanks i'll go try that

[Vealmonkey]

I have a neat little tool called a mitey vac. You can hook it up to your brake bleeder screw and actually suck the new brake fluid down into the caliper. It's much faster than just pumping the master cylinder by hand. You can get a mitey vac at most auto stores. They were maybe $40 -$50 but I've had mine for awhile. I still like to do one last bleed off the old fashioned way though. Put pressure on the m/cyl with the lever, crack the bleeder screw and then close it back up again.

[atc350xer]

lol... yeah, I'm too cheap to buy a mighty vac... clear tubing (so you can see it before you drink it!) works :P

[QCR77]

ALRIGHT !! we got some brakes that work. thanks guys. you know, alot of it is common sense but im never afraid to ask questions if it means doing it right the first time and not messing anything up. plus, you guys are all so kind and patient with me, your gonna have me splittin' cases and rebuilding bottom ends in no time ! im gonna go snap some pics for you, its the least i can do. BRB

[Vealmonkey]

I laughed reading your post. The only thing worse than drinking brake fluid would be drinking old brake fluid. Man, that's hardcore. I'll take the mitey vac anyday.

[QCR77]

oh yeah, and a big shout out and thank you to the member - Tyler54 - the brakes were exactly how he described em' and he gave me a helluva deal on them. thank you tyler54 !

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj13/brian302_bucket/350xdone007.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj13/brian302_bucket/350xdone009.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj13/brian302_bucket/350xdone010.jpg

[Vealmonkey]

Don't forget to leave Tyler54 a nice feedback in the buyer/seller feedback section. Trikes are much more fun to ride when the front brake works. You can also get the rebuild for your front master cylinder for a decent price. It may be in your interest to buy some of the rebuild parts and have them in a nice secure place. Along with an engine gasket kit and a couple oil filters and the maintenance parts like that.

[QCR77]

Don't forget to leave Tyler54 a nice feedback in the buyer/seller feedback section. Trikes are much more fun to ride when the front brake works. You can also get the rebuild for your front master cylinder for a decent price. It may be in your interest to buy some of the rebuild parts and have them in a nice secure place. Along with an engine gasket kit and a couple oil filters and the maintenance parts like that.

i just left tyler 54 a good feedback. im waiting on my kit for the rear master to get hear. good advice on the kit for the front and some gaskets. got a good stockpile of stuff i can get from the cycleplex but man i gotta stop the bleeding of my wallet for awhile!

[Vealmonkey]

I know, but if you have something that brakes, it's nice to have a replacement on hand so you can get back up and running quickly. And I mean the replaceable parts, spark plug, oil, gaskets, brake lines, brake pads, that kind of stuff. You can also shop around at leisure and stockpile you a couple of nice parts also, electrical bits and pieces and light parts. and the master cylinder rebuild kits and brake caliper kits. If you start doing alot of riding, it pays to have spares handy. Wheel bearings and seals are also good parts to have on hand. I mean you are riding a 25 year old machine.

[QCR77]

i hear ya. i cant wait for my new kill switch/headlight switches to get here. then i'll prob be starting another thread to get that done correctly. i just hope my lights work after the new switch. i put in and wired a new ac regulator but no lights. i did check em' though and the new bulbs arent blown out so thats good. the reason im holdin out hope for the switch to fix the prob is because my current switch is all busted up at the top by where the headlight on/off switch is. one thing i dont like though is that there are two wires coming from the switch that arent hooked up at all. prob gonna have to print out the wiring diagram and start from scratch

[Vealmonkey]

Those wires are for either the speedometer or tachometer if you have either one of those accessories. I have the speedo and you still have a left over wire. No big deal, don't sweat it. You'll see how the wires all fit, no problem.

[QCR77]

man a tach would be sick. i dont suppose you can hook up an aftermarket one? im sure the original ones are hundreds of $$. so youre sure the extra wires are for an accessory even though they are are coming from the switch?

[Vealmonkey]

Yep, the tach and speedo have lights on them that light up when the headlights are on and you need to hook into the power to get the pulse for the tach. No sweat. And I think the latest nos tach I heard that sold went for $1200.

[QCR77]

wow. cool man, well then maybe im good to go. my switch is so busted im surprised it still turns the bike off. got new regulator, front halogen bulbs and a new rear bulb just waitin for that switch. i got it from atchevean and it wasnt cheap. that and i been waitin for it to come all the way from australia.

[Vealmonkey]

Is it a new switch or used?

[Vealmonkey]

I'm running a different carb than stock now, a FCR. Since it has the choke and hot start cable, I decided to use a trx450r start switch, very cheap. But the wiring is different. so I decsoldered the wires from the 350x switch to the switches on the 450r swtich so I could use all the stock terminals and such. I will also be running the hot start cable to the 450r switch just like stock and have the choke remote mounted on my handlebars. Haven't tested the switch yet since I reinstalled it though. Wish me luck.

[QCR77]

wow, i def wish you luck on that. the switch i bought is new. here is a link to the combo switch i bought.

http://www.atcheaven.com/Electrical.php?pageNum_Elec=6&totalRows_Elec=77

[Vealmonkey]

The universal switch right? I was just looking at that. Also I might be wrong on the wrench size, but Dr. ATV has many different wrench sizes. I have to check the manual to see if it's in there.

[QCR77]

man , after some research i found the switch i bought from australia for $30 cheaper on ebay and coulda already had it by now. man, never again atcheaven.com, never again

and its the same one you gonna mod. hmm, pics when youre done? lol

[Vealmonkey]

You can't really see much. I tried reading the wiring diagrams and I was going to cut and solder and rewrap the start switch harness, but those stock wires are so thin. So one day I got a wild hair and the solder gun out. I disassembled the 2 switches and just desoldered the 450r switches and soldered the 350x wires into their place. The 450r switch has a place where the hotstart cable goes into and a thumb slide for the hotstart swtich. It's about the only differnce really. It wasn't that hard once I got started. You just have to make sure your solder joints are nice and solid and that you can't put tons of heat into the switches. One the switches that had 2 wires going to them. I would solder 1 wire on that switch and then go the the next swtich. It gave the switches a chance to cool between wires. And I just use a simple soldering pen from radio shack and flux core solder. And the 450r switch actually has a place for a wire tie at the base of the switch to keep the starter switch wiring harness from moving around all over the place. Heck, I even put a trx450r led rear taillight on, which is a straight bolt on with using a couple extra rubber washers and I'm going to be getting one of those banjo taillight switches which bolts in place of the standard banjo bolt on the rear master cylinder so I will have a working rear brakelight as well. A really neat and simple mod. Don't get me started on mods you can do. I've been playing. I have a more modern front master cylinder brand new as well that wasn't too costly. Don't let me corrupt you! LOL

[QCR77]

wowzerrs. so do i absolutely have to solder the switches? i cant just figure out which wires connect to what and splice them in one at a time?
man those mods sound sweet. when i get some more cash for the trikes i might send you a pm wondering where you bought that stuff. my neighbor is building a winch for wakeboarding without a boat and he ordered a master,line and caliper for a little 125cc pit bike for only $30. the master was just as big as the one i got and it was all chrome and nice.

[Vealmonkey]

The brand new master I bought was $84. I could give you the honda parts number off of it and it would probably be even cheaper than that. And the trx handlbar switch I lucked out on and it was like $28 and looks just like new with no wear. The rear led taillight was $30 and had little or no wear, but you need the connector to make it look really nice and that was $10. If you had a atv junkyard around you, you could probably get the taillight and switch even cheaper. I don't have an atv yard around me, so I have to shop ebay alot and bike bandit for my new parts. I know service honda is cheaper, but I never can get their system to work on my computer it seems. Bike Bandit is more convenient for me to use. And you can find deals on here at times too. That is where I got my FCR carb at and it came with a custom intake and new choke cable and some really sweet stainless heavy duty hose clamps.
And it would be a super pain to try and cut and splice the individual wires for the starter wiring harness. That is why I soldered the stock 350x wires the the trx450 switch and it looks so much cleaner also.

[JohnR.]

One suggestion on your front brakes. If you decide to rebuild the front caliper go with OEM Honda parts. Its only $20 or $30 to do it with OEM bushings, piston fluid and dust seals. If you decide you want to rebuild the front master, don't. A rebuild kit is about $20, for another $10 you can get a YFZ or LTR front master that is far superior to the stock one on its best day. I did the front one on my R and it was probably the best $25 I ever spent. I'm going to order another this week for my X and at some point I'll get one for my T3 as well. If your budget allows pick up a braided line for the front too, it makes the brakes feel so much better, no more spongy feeling at all.

John