Why did Honda only make the shaft drive hardtail Big Red for one year?

[BigRed1984]

Until recently, I was not aware of trike technology prior to 1984. I thought the '84 Big Red was the first Big Red, but no. Honda had a chain-drive Big Red in 1982 and 1983, which became the 200M for 1984-1986.

Honda got a good run out of the 200M design. Five years.

On the other hand the 1984 shaft drive Big Red design was only used for one year.

It seems like Honda went to a lot of trouble and engineering expense to come up with the 1984 Big Red design, to only manufacture it for one year. Sure the 85 was a quantum leap forward, but wouldn't it make sense to "upgrade" the 200M with shaft drive and reverse, getting some legs out of the design, rather than throw away all those development dollars?

It's not like the design isn't robust... 26 years later and my well-beat 84 still runs and drives as good as I remember, and nobody's been inside it yet.

[Tri-ZNate]

Probably since Honda had enough hard tails the smartest choice was to specialize their 200es towards a certain market, farmers and people who wanted to do work with their ATV. Give it more power, full suspension, accesories like a power plug and work light and you have a stroke of genius

[bonkers_200s]

The chain drive 200es big red was my first trike, I miss that old clunker. It had a self recycling oil system, I would have to bring 2 quarts of oil in the trunk every time I went riding :P

I don't know for sure but, its seems to me a hard tail, shaft drive machine is bound to have drive shaft problems if beat on just right, or wrong I should say.

[muddog]

well the 250BR is just far superior to the 200BR so i can see why they dropped it.

[litebulblsc]

I don't know for sure but, its seems to me a hard tail, shaft drive machine is bound to have drive shaft problems if beat on just right, or wrong I should say.


Care to elaborate?

[Custom200]

I though the 200m was on made in 84-85.

[zppeacock]

I don't know for sure but, its seems to me a hard tail, shaft drive machine is bound to have drive shaft problems if beat on just right, or wrong I should say.
The 200es was only available in 1984 it was a shaft drive with high, low and reverse. There was never a 200es chain drive

A shaft drive on a hard tail would be very strong because the shaft never makes any angle movements and just sits still.

[litebulblsc]

The 81 and 82 Big Reds were 200e. It did not transform into the 200m, as I believe there is an 83 & 84 200e. But I have no idea what the difference between the 200e and 200m are

[bonkers_200s]

When I had a hard tail that shouldn't be jumped, I jumped it. Hard and often. Sometimes the chain would pop from the sudden impact. Sometimes I would be the one popping off it. I think if I had the shaft drive when I was kid, I would have snapped it.

[3wheelmecca]

Could be leftover parts or just an experiment to see what people liked. I prefer a hardtail for trails, suspension for jumping and dirt track.

[petesatc]

the 200m and 200e are slightly different.....200e has a hi/lo gearbox the 200m did not.........also over here in the UK we got the 200es in 1985 (same tank decals as the 250es) we also got a 200e in 84 (different decals) so honda did make them after they stop selling them in the states..........the 200m was only made for 2 years 84-85....
if you guys want to see the brochures for the 84e and 85 200es check out this link to my web-site http://www.offroadvintage.com/page9.htm

[MudBug]

also over here in the UK we got the 200es in 1985 (same tank decals as the 250es) if you guys want to see the brochures for the 84e and 85 200es check out my this link to my web-site http://www.offroadvintage.com/page9.htm

wow, I didnt have a clue that they made an 85 200es. Strange.

[BigRed1984]

Maybe the '84 sold so well, Honda recouped their design money and made a healthy profit on it?

[petesatc]

more likely is they didn't sell that well and honda tagged on a extra year because they had so many parts left and its pretty cheap just to redesign some tank and body decals for a extra year......

[litebulblsc]

It was Honda's first shaft drive model wasn't it? Probably more of an experiment then anything...

[atctim]

I doubt it was an experiment as it was Honda's largest production run of any ATC ever. over 204,000 1984 Big Reds were produced that year.

I think you guys are reading into this stuff too much - there were other 1 year models from Honda - like the ATC185 made in 1980 only.

I am also seeing alot of wrong information in this thread from people!

[litebulblsc]

I doubt it was an experiment as it was Honda's largest production run of any ATC ever. over 204,000 1984 Big Reds were produced that year.

I think you guys are reading into this stuff too much - there were other 1 year models from Honda - like the ATC185 made in 1980 only.

I am also seeing alot of wrong information in this thread from people!

Correct the wrong info so we can get the info straightened out

[JoeyStacks]

When I had a hard tail that shouldn't be jumped, I jumped it. Hard and often. Sometimes the chain would pop from the sudden impact. Sometimes I would be the one popping off it. I think if I had the shaft drive when I was kid, I would have snapped it.

My shaft drive KLT 185 shaft hasnt broke... but I havent got more than 5 feet of air... YET

[BigRed1984]

Honda made 204,000 Big Reds in 1984? Wow.

I would think that Honda would've continued selling them if they were such a success. But no, they discontinued it after 1 year.

Yes, please correct the wrong information.

1. Did they make 200Ms in 1986? I've seen people selling "1986" 200Ms, and I think I've seen literature.
2. Is the 200M same as the old chain drive 200E Big Reds from 1982-1983? Someone said the 200M has a single-range tranny. I seem to remember them having high and low range.

[Howdy]

Correct the wrong info so we can get the info straightened out
Ok, we will start with your reply above.


The 81 and 82 Big Reds were 200e. It did not transform into the 200m, as I believe there is an 83 & 84 200e. But I have no idea what the difference between the 200e and 200m are

Honda didn't produce a 81 200e or a 1984 200e ( in the USA )

USA Big Red's 3 wheelers:
82-83 200e ( 200cc ) Chain drive, Hi /Lo, Minimal front suspension
84 200es ( 200cc ) Shaft drive, Hi / Lo / Reverse, Minimal front suspension

the biggest difference between the 200e and 200m ( motor wise ) is the sub tranny. The 200e had a Hi / Lo sub tranny, while the 200m didn't have a sub tranny at all.

It is very possible Honda produced extra 200e's and 200es and sold them in other Countries after they stopped being sold in the USA. This is pure speculation though. It would be nice to know for 100% sure ho they did it.


1st Post corrections:

In the USA the 200m's were only made in 84-85 ( 2 years not 5 years as was stated ).

Petesatc knows his stuff as well. They sold a lot of stuff outside the US after it was no longer sold here.

[rdlsz24]

200m was made 84-85, and doesn't have high and low.

200e was made 82-83. Big Red, chain drive

200es was made 84. Big Red, shaft drive

Edit: Howdy you beat me to it



Check out my attached document. I compiled that a while back from atcheaven.com's website.

Rob

[bonkers_200s]

My shaft drive KLT 185 shaft hasnt broke... but I havent got more than 5 feet of air... YET

We'll have to work on that one ;)

[atctim]

Thanks Howdy - Also - here is a link to a time line I made up at one time showing "Major" changes and introductions and all that kind of stuff.
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/timeline.htm

[litebulblsc]

Thanks Howdy - Also - here is a link to a time line I made up at one time showing "Major" changes and introductions and all that kind of stuff.
http://www.venustel.com/~tkeister/timeline.htm

Thanks for that, I book marked it for future reference.


200m was made 84-85, and doesn't have high and low.

Check out my attached document. I compiled that a while back from atcheaven.com's website.

Rob

I missed your attachment at first, but saved it for future reference.

Thanks,
Josh

[petesatc]

.........It is very possible Honda produced extra 200e's and 200es and sold them in other Countries after they stopped being sold in the USA. This is pure speculation though. It would be nice to know for 100% sure ho they did it...........
Hey Howdy
theres no speculation in it......heres a 85 200es forsale on UK ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-Big-Red-ATC-Trike-200-ES-200cc-1985-Bike_W0QQitemZ130366718382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mo torcycles?hash=item1e5a7641ae#ht_768wt_1167 seen loads of them over the years?
and check this thread on this forum 84e http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?104865-Well-i-got-it-%21-%5B-ATC-200E-84-%5D&highlight=84e+sweden

[Howdy]

.........It is very possible Honda produced extra 200e's and 200es and sold them in other Countries after they stopped being sold in the USA. This is pure speculation though. It would be nice to know for 100% sure ho they did it...........
Hey Howdy
theres no speculation in it......heres a 85 200es forsale on UK ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Honda-Big-Red-ATC-Trike-200-ES-200cc-1985-Bike_W0QQitemZ130366718382QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mo torcycles?hash=item1e5a7641ae#ht_768wt_1167 seen loads of them over the years?
and check this thread on this forum 84e http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php?104865-Well-i-got-it-%21-%5B-ATC-200E-84-%5D&highlight=84e+sweden

Like I stated above. You know your stuff. Thanks Pete!!!

[petesatc]

Like I stated above. You know your stuff. Thanks Pete!!!
Thanks Howdy ........ :-)))))

[Tuxnor]

naa i got a 200E 1984,,closer look on frame..its made in 1983..but also labled 1984 model..have to look for 1983 parts to it
same goes for my 250sx made in 1984..but label nr 2 says 1985 model

[aldochina]

just some other pionts i thought i would make!! pre-82 atc200's were NOT bigreds. just so were clear.
other differences from the 200e/es to M: 200m did not come factory with racks, it had the tread pattern of the s models. Also the front suspension on the 200m was alot different than the bigred models. the fork lowers on the 200m are aluminum!! So, there really are quite a few differences between theM and E models.

i wonder how the 200m sold compared to the 200s? Not sure who they were marketing the 200m to? Seems like the red headed step child of the atc line up!

[atcmatt]

i used to have an 85 200es. Was exactly the same just with 85 250es tank stickers.

[big danno]

Also used 200es drive train in their 84 TRX200 withfront and rear suspension for only one year as well.I own 1 of each which is kinda neat but I need to rebuild the atc engine as it says "knock knock" when she runs

[ilmoakw]

Comparing the driveline parts from the 84 200ES and the 84 TRX200 they are identical other then the added swing arm...