The ATZ450r build thread

[jeffatc250r]

Well I picked up this complete motor package last night, it includes the carb, elecs, and exh. Everything I need to make it run. Before tearing the motor out last night from the bike I was listening to it run and could hear a light tap up top. After taking it out and popping the valve cover, it appears that the cam chain is a lil stretched. Im going to pull the head and check out everything else but im pretty sure this is the only prob. It also may need a valve adjustment. It has gobs of compression and dont burn oil. In all due time it will be like new.

So my plans are to slap this in a liquid R frame. Any input, ideas, concerns?? Aint gonna happen anytime too soon as I need a doner frame and lots of other parts. I also have to finish my 500 before tackling this thing, Ive been neglecting it for some time now, you know how it is, always something else eating your play money.......

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq350/jeffsatc250r/DSC00817.jpg;';

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq350/jeffsatc250r/DSC00818.jpg

[Cadaver Dog]

I just think it's pretty cool you are gonna do it, or intend to at least. Suzuki is really left out in the trike world, albeit largely of their own doing, but still....

[Trimotomike]

Thats a cool idea those Rmz 450s have awesome power , when finished your gonna have a bada@s machine .

[Racerguy381]

There is a trick to the self adjusting cam chain tensioner on those motors. As the guides wear in the tensioner doesnt always keep consistaint pressure on them. Before you go tearing the head off. Try taking the center bolt out of the tensioner roll the motor up to TDC then back it off so the chain slacks on the tensioner side. Inside the tesioner there is either a standard screwdriver bit or an allen. Turn it clockwise which will release the spring pressure, then just let it go. It will snap down on the chain guide which should make it tighter than it is right now. It still could have a streched chain from not being adjusted for so long. Also check the cam follower buckets for any gualing plus do a leak down test to see if you have bad valves. Not to uncommon on the newer 4 strokes due to lack of proper mantinence. Good luck sounds like it would be a pretty sweet project to do.

[jeffatc250r]

Thanks for the tip raceruy. I pulled it all apart and checked it all out. The piston-end of the connecting rod has some galling on it, I assume from lack of oil. Sighhh, gonna have to split it and get a new rod installed. Everything else seems tight and has one hell of a port job done to it. Theres something dicked up with the tensioner, gonna just buy a new one and be done with it.

[Eric250R]

Dammit...everyone keeps stealing my ideas. Been wanting to build a Suzuki trike for a while. Good luck with the project man, looking forward to seeing it.

[Racerguy381]

Call it an RMT 450 lol

[Dirtcrasher]

NICE!!! Didn't see this coming a week ago!!

EDIT - LOL, Ya got the whole friggen thing!! I bet it Twas quite the deal too!

Did you mean below that you thought it may have a Bad con rod??

Those friggen motors get expensive quick! I'm unsure of what year was good/bad/ugly??

Looks cute in a trike though :D :lol:

[jeffatc250r]

Neither did I! It just kinda fell into my lap the other day. Just wish it didnt have a bad rod. So who has a frame for sale? Better yet a roller?

[audioworks04]

Might have some issues with the motor in a liquid R frame, but it can be done and has been done, well not with an RMZ motor but a modern 4 stroke. Main problem will be not enough head room for the motor and the intake tract being free of obstructions. There is a build thread of another 450 in a liquid R frame I would research that threat really close. Good luck and keep us updated.

[Racerguy381]

Its cheaper just to buy a whole new crank sometimes. I can get complete Hot Rod's cranks in std and stroker 2.5mm for the same price $295.95 Buy the time you press that crank apart and buy a new rod then press it back together and have it trued... Your almost at the same price with twice the head aches.

[jeffatc250r]

^^Im starting to think the same thing, ebay has a std hotrods kit for 235.

[Yamada]

I will follow this thread with interest! There something special about an suzuki trike...even if I'm not a suzuki fan.

[jeffatc250r]

Well Its gonna be awhile. Like I said, ive got to finish one before I can start this. I dont even have a frame yet. Ideally Id like to find a roller so im not chasing parts. So if anyone has an 85-86 honda 250r in the surrounding states, hit me up.

EDIT" Audioworks, I paid close attention to that other 450 thread, I really dont think its gonna be all that bad. I think this motor is shorter than the honda motors also. I dont do jumps, so if I have to make a new cradle thats a cpl inches shorter to get it to clear that downtube, thatyll work for me. I really cant do much of anything until I get a frame to start playing with. My main concern is the spark plug placement, It would really irk me to have to pull the motor to change the plug.

[whipit]

Put a crank or rod kit in it while it is apart. early (05-07) RMZ450's eat big end crank pins. This fills the motor with little shavings, trashes your jug, oil pump, etc. go to the thumpertalk RMZ450 page and search crank problems, you will get all the details you could need. I have seen several start knocking and require a total rebuild, including my own 06 model

[jeffatc250r]

Whipit, thanks for the link, ill check that out tomm. I def plan on putting a crank in it, the big end is loose and the small end is galled up and ate the wrist pin. From wat I can see the crank, cam chain and tensioner are all that is wrong with it. Hopefully nothing else in the bottom end is bad.

[jeffatc250r]

Well, I gots something to work with now. Picked up this 86 frame, swinger, seat, fenders and tires today. Even came with a cali title :D

Frame has no tweaks and no stripped out threads anywhere. There is a cpl problems though, the swinger bolt appears stuck. Im assuming this from the half-backed off nut that is all mushroomed over :rolleyes: friggin rookies

Also there is a chunk MIA from the bearing carrier. Doesnt look like its going to affect anything though, just kinda an eye sore.



http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00948.jpg;';

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00949.jpg;';

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00950.jpg;';

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00951.jpg

[jeffatc250r]

Arghhhh, I couldnt take it. The thought of that swinger bolt being stuck was ticking me off, so I tackled that problem and ended up having to cut it out, but nonetheless its out. Then started to get itchy so I cut off the bottom frame motor mounts and tossed the motor in there to see what I was up against.
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00956.jpg

The cradle needs to be lowered a lil to get the swinger bolt to line up. From what I can see, It's looking like im not going to have to touch that crossmember, that makes me happy. Im going to cut the frame above the front motor mounts and heat up the cradle tubes down near that crossover tube and bend it down to where they cradle will allow the motor to sit in there. Then heat up the cradle below the front mounts where the bend is to get it back in line to where I cut it, then weld a slug in.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00955.jpg;';

I got a couple problems to deal with. As you can see, Fuel tank is gonna hit. I recall 250r fan cut out a pie and plastic welded in a piece from a doner tank. Just so happens I have a pos tank that a dog wont even take a leak on because its so ugly. So I wont feel bad about disecting it.
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00957.jpg;';

Second issue is the carb. I was worried this was going to happen.
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00958.jpg;';

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00959.jpg;';


What do you guys think about this? Ive got a Idea to cut the frame on the subframe and also above the swinger bolt holes (where the blue marks are) and weld in a inch or 2 inch slug to raise the downtube from the engine.

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00961.jpg;';

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00960.jpg

Ive got some brainstorming to do. Any input from you guys is always welcome. :idea:

[jeffatc250r]

Anyone know of a carb boot that has say like a 20% angle built into it from any other bike? That would drastically help the situation I think and may keep the frame stretch to a minimum.

[jeffatc250r]

Well its sittin in there now anyways. I think Im gonna lop it off at the blue mark and make 2 new rails that will hug the motor a lil closer than it does right now. Not going to do that though until I figure out what to do with the carb. Cmon guys, can anyone think of a carb boot that has a little bit of an angle built into it?

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00962.jpg

[jeffatc250r]

Scored these cute lil buggers on the bay. They are from a cb1100f. From what I gather, they are only 1 or 2mm smaller than a stock 450 boot on the ID. Should have no problem stretching one of these on. Im prob still gonna have to notch the main frame rail to get the top of the carb to clear, but should be minor compared to what I would of had to do.

Ok,.........for some reason I cant attach pics...Ill try again later

[RacerRichie]

Sweet build.

[250rfan]

Scored these cute lil buggers on the bay. They are from a cb1100f. From what I gather, they are only 1 or 2mm smaller than a stock 450 boot on the ID. Should have no problem stretching one of these on. Im prob still gonna have to notch the main frame rail to get the top of the carb to clear, but should be minor compared to what I would of had to do.

Ok,.........for some reason I cant attach pics...Ill try again later

Sweet!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice little project you got there Jeff.

As far as the tank Jeff, don't bother cutting and welding the one you have - it does'nt work.

Instead, try heating the underneath of the tank and pushing the plastic inward, see syko as i believe he has tried this with success, if that does'nt work make an aluminum or steel tank.

Just my opinion.

[aldochina]

cool build Jeff. looks like you are getting right into it ehh. Love custom builds, good luck, look forward to following the build!

[jeffatc250r]

Sweet!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice little project you got there Jeff.

As far as the tank Jeff, don't bother cutting and welding the one you have - it does'nt work.

Instead, try heating the underneath of the tank and pushing the plastic inward, see syko as i believe he has tried this with success, if that does'nt work make an aluminum or steel tank.

Just my opinion.

Thank you for the input. So what happened to your tank? Did the welds break loose? A full on aluminum tank would look sweet as honey, but sounds like quite a project to make, especially incorporating the shrouds to it. We will see once we get that far what to do.

EDIT Just flipped through your build thread and found the answers. That tank is the cats-ass. Jason hall, If you read this, you are indeed the master. Very nice tank, I bow down to you !

[Dirtcrasher]

I'm wondering if they way you've essentially extended the whole frame, maybe the carb/tank will fit better??

I do recall 250RFAN running into plastic weld failures. Jesus crap, what do we have to do to find a way to cut/weld plastic that will hold up!!?? Maybe it's the fuel that gets in the plastic thats the issue?? We ought to be able to cut and weld plastic or maybe it is simply the type of material that won't allow it once it's injection formed..........

I'd think a sheetmetal tank would be easier for the average guy and a nice tuneable mig welder. If you can heat it up and dent in the plastic, thats a PERFECT solution!! :D I bet the temperature is critical to do that though...............

Looking great, great thoughts and I/we look forward to the finished project :beer

This will be another build that you and "US" will learn from.......

It's too late now, but I was gonna suggest changing that whole square downtube (grinding off the 2 lower tubes and where it mounts in the top section) and extending the entire square tube in the process,which would get some more height within that downtube; Rather than chop the 2 tubes and fill them in with smaller inside diameter tubing and then filling the outside.........

Regardless, guys like you will make it plenty strong so IDT thats an issue. I'd also cut off those 2 angled tubes at the subframe and just weld them back up a bit higher (after everything is lowered), rather than cut and extend those 2 tubes. Just me thinking :D

Just like lengthening the ATC70 tup tube; I'm gonna cut it right out and use a new greater wall thickness rather than extend the stock thin tube. Adding 3mm in wall thickness barely adds a half pound and then I can extend it any length I wish...... So that leaves out any additional weight issues.

Any and all thoughts get our wheels turning. We all look at things differently but those were some of my thoughts when In saw your blue marker and I started thinking............

Regardless, nice work thus far Jeff!!; I'm POSITIVE you'll get it all figured out in time!

DC

[jeffatc250r]

I see the pics are working again, heres the boots I scored. All 4 are different from what I can gather, so one should give me what Im looking for I hope

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af333/skunkhunter/DSC00966.jpg

[jeffatc250r]

Got the boots in, disapointed to find that the manifold side is smaller than the carb side,.....why couldnt they have just made em the same dia on both ends??

Back to the drawing board. If anyone can think of a bike that may make a good candidate let me know.

Also if anyone needs new-used carb boots fo their cb 1100, I think I know where you can get a set CHEAP

[Doppler]

From the pic the sides don't look too much different. Put them in boiling water to heat them up and make them pliable. I bet they will stretch over the cylinder inlet

[torker]

Nice build!!! About the tank, don't bother welding it. It does NOT work. I've already cut one one up and the plastic welding sucked, so I tried heating the already cut tank with a industrial heat gun and you can move around that plastic quite a bit. Be patient. The biggest issue is that the head will hit very close to the petcock (on my 250 motor) I'm sure the taller 450 will be even worse. You may have to move it. But since you've cut and lowered the frame rails it may not be so bad. Some of the carb boots you can play with to move the carb around, I just had to cut the stay on mine, gave it have a turn and it's perfect (on my smaller 250 build).
Keep at it. I wish you the best of luck my friend.
TORKER.

[250rfan]

Howz this project coming along?

[willrideanythin]

I used a Dremel to trim an intake boots ID once. It came out really well, I just clamped it tighter to make sure it sealed right.

[jeffatc250r]

No new progress on this as of yet,..my street bike has been getting one hell of a workout now that its summertime.

I gotta get this back up on the bench and do some tinkering. I will def keep the dremel trick in mind, maybe ill try that out this weekend.

[squirrel1182]

sweet build! keep us updated!

[thestud25]

Any updates?