Broken bolt UPDATE [PICS]

[inv3ctiv3]

So the worst possible bolt to break on my 350x broke tonight....I was finishing up my full tune up and getting ready for a good ride tomorrow by putting on my brand new clutch cable....The bolt that holds the clutch cable to the right crank case cover broke off right into the case cover....It's really far in there....has anyone ever had this happen?

It's number 35 in this picture

http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/HONDA/1985/ATVs/1845_RIGHT%20CRANKCASE%20COVER.gif

[Twilight]

what i did was lay the engine on the side, get some PB blaster and spray a puddle on it for about an hour or so letting it sit, then i got a grabit from home-depot and the one in my 250r case came out.

[jeffatc250r]

Ehhh, who needs that? Bust out a cpl zip ties and the duct tape!!

Seriously though, that sucks, always happens when you have stuff planned too it seems, what do they call that,...murphy's law or something.

[jensenracing77]

the best thing you can do is to take the clutch cover off and do it. many times there will be some of the bolt sticking out of the center case and you can take it out with a pair of vise grips. there has ben many times that i have had people bring me a bike that had a bolt broke off for the oil filter cap. i have taken the cap off and unscrewed them with my fingers. if you are very careful you may be able to leave the clutch cover on it and get a reverse drill bit and try to drill it out backwards. many times this will just unscrew the bolt right out. you really should take the cover off and try that first. just don't get into a hurry just to go ride. you may regret it.

also if the threads are bad after you get the bolt out, don't drill and tap to the next size like most people do. if the threads are bad, your local machine shop or ATV shop can put in a helicoil for cheep and you can keep the correct bolt size.

[riverrat]

How far in is it, put another bolt in over it, so you cab ride. Then fix it the right way.

[Dirtcrasher]

Is that the clutch holder piece, of an 85 era??!!

Did it thread into the clutch cover or the center case (real; long bolt - A fiche may tell you)??

But, if it is threaded into the side cover, It can be millet out like chicken or if it is broke off in the center case. I'd prep it with or slot or whatever, but then propane torch the inner case with P Blaster/WD in hand. Then vice grip it out/turn with a :smaaaaaaall" punch but....??

A nice pic would help allot! :) Then someone can say "YOUR SCREWED!" or "I Can Fix That!" Lets see whats up! :D

[KASEY]

those left hand drill bits come in handy in this situation,,, did you twist it off? from overtightening? did it twist off from trying to take it out? if it broke while trying to remove.... its going to be a tough one.. if you twisted it off you might be in luck if its not bottomed out in the threads...

[inv3ctiv3]

I'll try and get a pic asap, is it hard to remove the right clutch cover? Do I have to take the motor out? It broke when I was tightening it, not loosening.

[3Razors]

Did it break by tightening or loosening it? That bolt goes into the crankcase. Hopfully after pulling the clutch cover off you will have enough material still there to grab with vice grips.

Edit: Just read it was by tightening, next time though those bolts don't have to be "tight as hell and one more turn." 8-12nm torque is all you need for crankcases and engine covers.

[inv3ctiv3]

It broke while I was tightening it

[jason85atc250r]

sorry to hear about the problem but you dont have to take that off to do a clutch cable those 85 350x's. take it off at the handle bar end 1st then it'll just slide out of that bracket.

[inv3ctiv3]

Yea I did that, I was putting the new cable on!

[inv3ctiv3]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4298846685_286dd2ef0c_b.jpg

That's it, a little out of focus but you get the point

[Thorpe]

I would pull the cover if I was in the same situaton...

[harryredtrike]

yea i'd pull the side cover off to get to it.it's not that hard,just a pain.

[inv3ctiv3]

What really sucks is the manual says to drain the oil to take the cover off....I just put 2 brand new quarts of honda oil in and haven't even started it.....shits weak.

[ceaserthethird]

Dude reverse drill bit will take it out in a Minute !

Just Spray it down with wd-40 or pb blaster than go at it slow .... works like a charm !

[broook]

What really sucks is the manual says to drain the oil to take the cover off....I just put 2 brand new quarts of honda oil in and haven't even started it.....shits weak.

Tip it over on its side. You won`t have to drain the oil then.

[devilman]

if you decide to take the cover off, you should check the oil filter screen. clean it or replace it.

[SWIGIN]

if you decide to take the cover off, you should check the oil filter screen. clean it or replace it.


This^

I would just tip the bike on it's side and stuff clean rags or paper towles in the motor to keep crap out.

[jensenracing77]

some very good advise from everyone. i have also tipped a bike on its side to cake a cover off and back on without draining the oil. i don't know how much experience you have and this may be obvious but if you have to take the side cover off, don't use a gasket sealer when you put it back on. you need to get a new gasket and remove the old one. also when you take the clutch cover off of a 350X the hardest part is to get the compression release arm in the right place and adjusting the cable. if i remember right you will have to take the head pipe off. just be careful with the exhaust bolts so that they don't brake also. i would try the reverse drill bit first if it were me but be very very careful. you can make things worse if you are not careful. if the bolt don't come out within the first little bit you may want to stop and take the cover off.

[3Razors]

I'll try and get a pic asap, is it hard to remove the right clutch cover? Do I have to take the motor out? It broke when I was tightening it, not loosening.

Usually when people ask that question, it is best to just take it to a reputable person/shop to do it. Have to be honest with yourself if you have the skills and patience to get it done right or you will have much more grief and expense in the long run. Good luck either way.

[Dirtcrasher]

^ Well said, don't make life any worse!!

[inv3ctiv3]

I think I could do it, I've pretty much done everything there is to do on my 200x besides split the cases (which I did anyway on a bad bottom end I had laying around). I just haven't done anything on my 350x yet, the hardest part sounds like the decompression cable like Jensen was saying, I hate adjusting that kind of stuff. I think I may just try the reverse drill bit and if that doesn't work I'll go from there and either fix it myself or take it to a shop.

[harryredtrike]

i know you can do it.if there is a nub stciking up when you take the outer case off should be very doable.

[jensenracing77]

the cable is not that hard but for your first time it could be a little tricky. the part i was more talking about is when you put the clutch cover back on. the compression release lever needs to be in the right place. it will only go 2 ways and when it is in the wrong place it is obvious when you look at it. if you tip it on its side, that would be best your first time. there is a couple washers and a spring at the kicker shaft that could fall off and an o ring at the oil pump. if it is on its side they should stay put.

[inv3ctiv3]

Well a friend of mine has an "extracting kit" and is going to come over and help me out....I also had to helicoil 2 of the 3 bolts that hold the oil filter housing due the old owner hogging them out.....This full tune up has not been a good one.....I also found a couple of tiny stress cracks in the frame below the seat by the seat latch and tail light).

[Dirtcrasher]

GOOD LUCK!!

Take it easy guys!
DC out...............

[inv3ctiv3]

So I decided to just do it right and take the clutch cover off to get to the bolt that broke off in the crank case.....I noticed some gasket sealer on the bottom of the clutch cover so I said f*ck it I'll take it apart and do it right and get that sealer off. I found out a lot about this trike doing all this, it also now needs shock boots which have cracked from how hard I ride it....All original isn't so good sometimes when it's as old as it is and you ride it really hard......Anything else I should replace while I am in here? I tried getting the oil screen out but it seem stuck...do you just pull it out? It definitely needs to be cleaned....


The bolt is barely sticking above the case.....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4305408866_843dfd8292_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4304665735_86f4978326_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2720/4305408810_e8f8d13674_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/4304665501_05d534c626_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4015/4305408646_b3fe8543fa_o.jpg

And here is how she sits until tomorrow (gotta order the gasket tomorrow) and I of course covered the engine.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4304665671_31412d50dc_o.jpg

[muddog]

use a pair of needle nose pliers for the oil screen, weld a nut to that bolt and you shouldn't have a problem getting it out

[Thorpe]

I agree with muddog... Or more than once, I have just welded a glob to the end of the bolt, large enough to get a vise grips on...

[atctim]

or try to use a dremel and grind a slot in it - then use a flat headed screwdriver to unscrew it. I would try tht before welding on it. If you do end up welding on it - please unhook your CDI box first!

[DeePa]

an awl and a small hammer and you can work that right out

[muddog]

or try to use a dremel and grind a slot in it - then use a flat headed screwdriver to unscrew it. I would try tht before welding on it. If you do end up welding on it - please unhook your CDI box first!

forgot about that one, but if it broke from over-tightening i doubt a slot would have enough grip to get it out worth giving it a try though

[inv3ctiv3]

Does anything else look funny? Clutch look ok?

[muddog]

the outside looks a little dirty but thats just cosmetics. i would take the clutch apart and measure the plates/discs since you have it apart anyway.

[hoser]

If you weld the nut on DONT try to unscrew the bolt until it is completely cooled, I would let it set for at least an hour just to be sure.

[inv3ctiv3]

I really doubt I'll be welding it seeing as I don't have a welder....But if it is a last resort we'll take it to a friends shop with a welder.

[harryredtrike]

you should be able to get her out.got a new side cover gasket?

[jensenracing77]

it also now needs shock boots which have cracked from how hard I ride it....All original isn't so good sometimes when it's as old as it is and you ride it really hard.

sounds like a good reason to get a TPC450 ;):D

this is where i would use a reverse drill bit. with the cover off you can get it lined up better. have someone with a shop vac there to suck up the shavings while you drill. if it is tight you will have to drill all the way through the bolt and most of the time it will come right out. if you have never drilled a bolt be careful and use the right size drill bit or you will mess up the threads and have to use a helicoil

[MudBug]

try drilling a small hole in center of the bolt, and use an easy-out

[ATCeeya]

iits hard to see if you can get a bite on it or not but if you can try a pair of pliers like this. I have used them and worked well for me.

http://www.hand-tools.us/images/pictures/channellock-10in.-large-end-cutter-pliers-model-14810.jpg

I have also used left or reverse whatever you call them drillbits which have worked good but if you cant drill dead nuts you could cause damage. welding a nut has also worked for me before. Sicne you already had the bolt out and broke it while tightening i dont think you will have much trouble getting it back out.

[sandpuppi101]

Just use a small drillbit and easyout that broken bolt rite outta there,it's the easiest solution for you and the fastest also.I would'nt go to welding anything,I just don't see why you would even try welding that.With an easyout you can have it out with-in 5 minute's..Make sure you put a rag inside the case so you don't contaminate the inside of the case,just my 2 cent's...

[hoser]

Just use a small drillbit and easyout that broken bolt rite outta there,it's the easiest solution for you and the fastest also.I would'nt go to welding anything,I just don't see why you would even try welding that.With an easyout you can have it out with-in 5 minute's..Make sure you put a rag inside the case so you don't contaminate the inside of the case,just my 2 cent's...


Usually when a bolt breaks off like that its because the threads are frozen, welding does two things, the heat from welding breaks the bond between the bolt and the surrounding metal and gives you something to put a wrench on, again you want it to be 100% cooled off after welding or you will just pull the threads out with the bolt.

I think this is why you keep seeing advice to weld...

[johnny's X]

I am with sandpuppi101 on this. I wouldnt weld anything that close to my case. First off if you are not good with a welder then you will have to end up grinding it off of the cases with may lead to it never sealing up again. Small drill at a low speed with some oil. Go slow and try to stay to the center of the bolt. Get your easy out put in and work it out slowly. Dont put to much pressure on it or you will snap your easy out. Drilling out an easy out is not an easy task. Oh be sure to get yourself some good bits. Dont buy some cheap home depot brand junk.

[oldskool83]

I''d try and drill it out and then have a helicoil installed. dont feel comfortable doing this, take it to a machine shop. i had somthing like this happen on a cylinder head of a xr200 once...i took them the motor, 3 days later i bolted the moter back together like it never happened.

[inv3ctiv3]

We're gonna try extracting it today, I am ordering a new gasket and some bolts today so hopefully it'll be back up and running this weekend

[jensenracing77]

i hate "maybe outs"! (easy outs). i have never had luck with them. like mentioned above, if you brake the "maybe out" then you are screwed so bad.

i would not use heat in any way for this application. after you do a couple dozen broken bolts you will not think twice about taking one out. by then you will know what works best for you. good luck.

[inv3ctiv3]

Got it out no problem, drilled the center out a little and used needle nose pliers, wasn't even all that tight.

[SWIGIN]

Got it out no problem, drilled the center out a little and used needle nose pliers, wasn't even all that tight.


Good to hear!

Now, just make sure you don't forget/loose the little o-rings that seals the case to the oil pump line. I have seen this happen before to guys who don't realize they are there.

[jensenracing77]

GREAT! i knew you could do it. i had them many time come out with my fingers.

[inv3ctiv3]

Yea now I am just waiting on some bolts and a new gasket! Should be here today so hopefully I can get her back together for the weekend!

One other problem though, I bought a D.I.D Gold X-ring ATV chain from rockymountainatv and got it on and everything and put the master link in but the clip won't go on....The cuts in the chain posts where the link should clip into aren't showing like the outside link is not pressed on enough....We can not get it to press on all the way and I broke the clip in half trying to get it on....Do you think any link for a DID chain will work or does anyone have any tips for getting the clip on? Can I safety wire it or something lol.

[harryredtrike]

righty tighty, lefty loosy.now dont forget lol.