I'm new to ice racing - pls help me set it up

[scottp597]

So whats involved in getting my 86 250r setup for the ice?

I have:
Larger main jet - 180 on my 39mm pwk
+4 Lonestar axle
Extra tires that I will stud

What setting does the rear shock need to be at to lower the ride height? Is an adjustable dog bone necessary?
How about gearing? I'm running 14/36 which to me is really tall is this adequate?
What about the front suspension?

Thanks

[jeffatc250r]

I use a durablue adjustable link and also choke up on the front forks. What kinda tires you plan on running?

[scottp597]

I was just going to use some worn holeshots that came on the trike but stud them up, 20" ones. Same for the front

[4cfed]

you got the right idea, stud up the tires... prob 300-500 studs per rear tire,, also like stated, choke up on the triple tree ( loosen the bolts and slide the fork tubes up so it lowers the front end down)

for the rear shock, adjustable link, or loosen the spanner nuts( closer to the top of the shock) than adjust the settings on it to firm it up,

depending on the type of racing you do.. your gearing might be ok if you have the skill and set up to carry speed threw the corners, but may have better luck going up on the rear,

[scottp597]

Thanks for the info, should be a fun time!

[eddie pettengil]

use what you have planned for now. your order of purchase should be

#1. a set of chin chen c826 18x9.5x8 ice racing tires with a stud placed in each nobby (this will get the rear end lower and let you get the spin you need).

#2. adjustable lowering link (this will get you way low).

#3. custom 10 inch front wheel (this will let you run smaller front tires in the 19,20 and 21 inch range and that will help get the front end lower).

there are alot of other tricks but these will help the most.

[mike1979]

use what you have planned for now. your order of purchase should be

#1. a set of chin chen c826 18x9.5x8 ice racing tires with a stud placed in each nobby (this will get the rear end lower and let you get the spin you need).

#2. adjustable lowering link (this will get you way low).

#3. custom 10 inch front wheel (this will let you run smaller front tires in the 19,20 and 21 inch range and that will help get the front end lower).

there are alot of other tricks but these will help the most.


Just outta curiosity, how much did you lower the forks?

[litebulblsc]

You want low, wide, and stock or shortened wheelbase I believe.

[4cfed]

You want low, wide, and stock or shortened wheelbase I believe.

low and wide!! you see all the time.. quads set up for ice/ flat track with -1 or -2 swing arms... ..



im actually gonna be doing some investigating with the rear shock/ link from my 84 cr125 to see if there is a way to get it to work on the 200x to get the rear end lower

[DixiePlowboy]

You want low, wide, and stock or shortened wheelbase I believe.

The shortened wheelbase part is highly debatable

[atcrider1]

thats a sick R Eddie!!

[eddie pettengil]

The quads do not hook 1/2 as good as a trike coming out of a turn, there for they use shorter swingarms to get more weight over the rear wheels. I have to much grip on the trike pulling the front tire off the ground when throttling out the corner.

I have my forks pulled up in the tripples 4 3/8 higher than normal setting, I also use the 85 spring set up and remove the top spring and place it on the dampening rod lowering it another 1 1/4. she sits pretty low, I'm 5'10'',140lb and it looks like a toy next to me (check pics).

Notice the 1/2 moon shape in my rear fenders from the studs making contact with them, lol now thats low.

[4cfed]

wow! that looks wicked!!! and vids of her tearing up the ice???

[eddie pettengil]

stay tuned this winter for vids, you have to remember im 36 with 2 very young kids so dont expect anything crazy, not sure if there are any vids of me i'm the guy with the camaera most of the time.

[4cfed]

stay tuned this winter for vids, you have to remember im 36 with 2 very young kids so dont expect anything crazy, not sure if there are any vids of me i'm the guy with the camaera most of the time.

im 26 with a boy thats gonna be 3 in less than a month, and a 1 month old little girl! i hear ya as we age we dont heal as fast.. im still fellin my high side roll over from saturday

[DixiePlowboy]

The quads do not hook 1/2 as good as a trike coming out of a turn, there for they use shorter swingarms to get more weight over the rear wheels..

I was referring to the folly of shortening a 3-wheeler.

[mike1979]

The quads do not hook 1/2 as good as a trike coming out of a turn, there for they use shorter swingarms to get more weight over the rear wheels. I have to much grip on the trike pulling the front tire off the ground when throttling out the corner.

I have my forks pulled up in the tripples 4 3/8 higher than normal setting, I also use the 85 spring set up and remove the top spring and place it on the dampening rod lowering it another 1 1/4. she sits pretty low, I'm 5'10'',140lb and it looks like a toy next to me (check pics).

Notice the 1/2 moon shape in my rear fenders from the studs making contact with them, lol now thats low.


Eddie, that thing looks sic!!!!:TrikesOwn

[eddie pettengil]

Looks are deceiving, I bought this trike back in 1990 for $500.00 and beat the hell out of it for 5 years before stuffing it under a deck with a tarp covering it. 15 years later I just wanted to take it for a spin for some reason, brought it out to the garage took the mouse nest out of the air box put fresh gas in and kicked it about 12 times and she started. It never left the garage after that, completely took her apart and started cleaning every nut and bolt. Replaced everything that it needed and thats where it is today, just a good clean correct working trike.

nothing special here, here are some picks from when it first entered the garage

[oscarmayer]

so duct taping the axle eh? how lonf does that tend to hold out? :P

[eddie pettengil]

That axle nut just would not stay tight for some reason. Even on my updated pics you will notice I still today use tape to keep that thing tight. I did make the switch to black electric tape :eek:

[litebulblsc]

The shortened wheelbase part is highly debatable

I said stock or shortened because that is what people run. I have not seen too many running extended swing arms.

[riverrat]

Do what I did, took the advice of someone who's been doing it a long time.
http://home.comcast.net/~atc330rrider/atc330r1.html
I've ridden with him, he's on the board, ChrisD, and JohnR both helped me setup my 250R, and it was a screaming with good handling right from the getgo.
I am 44, don't want to get hurt either, that's why I wanted something that handles great. Check out my vid in my sig.

[DixiePlowboy]

I said stock or shortened because that is what people run. I have not seen too many running extended swing arms.

A shorter machine spins out too easily for me. I would leave an R stock length for flattrack before I would shorten it. But ya'll do what works for you.

[eddie pettengil]

so what do you guys run for the front tire, how did the Duro Scorcher 21x7x10 work out for the guys trying them last year.

[riverrat]

A shorter machine spins out too easily for me. I would leave an R stock length for flattrack before I would shorten it. But ya'll do what works for you.

They got snow/ice in Alabama?

[DixiePlowboy]

They got snow/ice in Alabama?

Sometimes. (Wondered how long it would take for someone to say that....lol) We haven't had enough ice to put together something on the minnow pond in years, but it has been done here before.....albeit on a much smaller scale.

Same length/width/ride height principle applies to dirt track. Traction and the like on ice are another ballgame, I'm sure.

If shortening the wheeler to get it to slide easier(as some do on dirt), my statements are valid. If shortening the machine to put more weight over the rear tires for traction, I'll defer to the experts living in the icier regions and withdraw my critisism.

Fair enough?

[riverrat]

Sometimes. (Wondered how long it would take for someone to say that....lol) We haven't had enough ice to put together something on the minnow pond in years, but it has been done here before.....albeit on a much smaller scale.

Same length/width/ride height principle applies to dirt track. Traction and the like on ice are another ballgame, I'm sure.

If shortening the wheeler to get it to slide easier(as some do on dirt), my statements are valid. If shortening the machine to put more weight over the rear tires for traction, I'll defer to the experts living in the icier regions and withdraw my critisism.

Fair enough?

Nice save! Yea it's fair. The reason (so I am told) to shorten the wheelbase, or more correctly, move the rear wheels under the rider more, is to put more weight directly over the wheels for better traction to stop it from spinning.

[brapp]

i am runnign a -1 swinger oin my r and it made the handelign much more crisp and responsive and just had to use a lil mor ebody elglish . i am planning on lowerign for this upcomign seasona nd makign a trailprotrailprotrailprotrailpro ton of mor epower for the ice!!

[JohnR.]

I forget what brand tire I use for the front but its on a 10" rim and is basically a Holeshot copy. There is a 22" tall tire that goes on an 11" rim which makes the insane cost of a 10" front rim seem pointless to me. Back around 1998, when I bought my 10" front, it was less than $50 IIRC but now they are going for well over $100. Other than that just set it up like Chris said on his site. As for the gearing, it depends on the size of the track, the amount of power you are making, and how much speed you can carry through the turns. If you're on a stock carb then a 180 main jet is insanely large. The stock jet is a 145 or something like that. You don't need to go anywhere near a 180 on a stock carb, it doesn't flow that much air. I'm not a big fan of going super low on the front, I just remove the upper springs and go like that. With the front too low I feel like the trike wants to tip over towards the outside of the turn. I'm much more comfortable having the back a little lower than the front, it helps with traction too IMHO. Keep in mind, the setup that feels perfect to one person may not feel that way to another.

John

[scottp597]

Great info!! I'm super stoked. I'm actually running 180 main jet on my 39mm pwk for my esr 310 forgot to mention that. I have it running PERFECT, I love this thing.

I tell my friends if this thing blows up today, I would rebuild it tomorrow in a second. Its so much fun

[eddie pettengil]

John is 100% right about ("the setup that feels perfect to one person may not feel that way to another").

The ice conditions have a huge impact on your setup along with stud condition as the winter goes on. Hard ice has less grip than soft ice.

I have found that on hard ice I also like the trike to sit lower in the back but on soft ice I need to drop the front and raise the back so the front sits lower (I would think a stiffer rear spring would help also).

I have not tried this yet but would like to play around with tire stagger :wondering . Now If I could get Chin Chin to make a 19 inch rear tire.

[sbjones73]

ya know this is all great information. i hope that swira will allow studs, it might still happen!!!!

but right now they are only letting us use rubber (no studs) every one is running hoosiers, i can't afford them, so i am going to have to run my 20" tamers on my 84 250r.

but thanks for all the information on the studs and stuff like that.

[Yamada]

ya know this is all great information. i hope that swira will allow studs, it might still happen!!!!

but right now they are only letting us use rubber (no studs) every one is running hoosiers, i can't afford them, so i am going to have to run my 20" tamers on my 84 250r.

but thanks for all the information on the studs and stuff like that.

AMS make a tire similar to the maxxis 4-snow, the Zipper. I saw in Dennis Kirk catalg that they offer this tire in 18 inch. on a 8 inches rim.... The rubber is so soft on these tires I'm sure it would be has good as a Hoosier in the unstudded tire class...

[JohnR.]

The reason the Hoosiers work so well isn't so much that they are soft as that they have a large surface area in contact with the ice. The Turf Tamer is going to be just running on the tips of the knobs and the total of that surface area is a lot less than that of the Hoosier with its large, flat tread, and very small gaps between the treads. If I had to run unstudded (which to me seems like an exercise in futility since you can't stop, go, or turn very weel) and I was on a tight budget I would try some Turf Saver lawn tractor tires. They're probably the cheapest tire you'll find and they work pretty well for a dirt flat track tire just like the Hoosiers do so I'd imagine they'd be OK in an unstudded class.

John

[badasskfx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPpIx6QlAhU
:beer

[eddie pettengil]

thanks bud, forgot about that one.

[badasskfx]

have you warmed up to your buddy next door? or are you going to say tough sheet to him? LOL

[eddie pettengil]

I'm sure I will have plenty of rubber marks on my fenders after this winter on the BULLRING in Milton :D

[badasskfx]

sweet! ill bring phil a gift.LOL

[sbjones73]

ok. thanks for the information. for non studded. hows about some golf cart tires. i found some 18x8.5x8 carlisle trail links 4 plytires on rims. i would have to do some cutting to make some small knobbies very tight together. do you guys think that these would make a better choice for the non studded class ?
thanks!!!!!!!!!

[brapp]

nopt really the carlisle tires are a rathe rhard compound just try and fonmd a set of hoosers or a set of durno soft compound tires.

[JohnR.]

Whatever tire you choose I would see if there is a way to add sipes to the tires. Sipes are the slits in the treads that allow tires like the Blizzak snow tire for your car to work so well on ice without metal studs.

[Bryan Raffa]

dremmel cut every dimple... wonder if it would work as good?

[sbjones73]

ok. did some searching. duro 245 or the 247's (247's are directional cut) ? plus for 8" rims they only come in medium soft compound.

bryan, that was what i was wondering. the carlisle i have are basically a slick with 2 rings going around them. i was thinking about cutting every small dimple with a cut off tool or something. i figured alot of dimples, tight together. probably like 1/2" dimple,1/4" apart side to side and front to rear. still good contact patch offered plus some grooving . but if they are to hard, then well i'am not going to waste my time. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! you guys know better than me!!!!

[sbjones73]

i don't know. i am jsut going to run my tamers, maybe search for some other tires later. we shall see

[brapp]

tamers are agreat tire and hold studs fairly well too but i still doibnt think thier quite soft enough on certin ice on rough and soft ice thay will work but on slick hard ice your gonna need soemthign more.

[sbjones73]

well kill switch didn't show up, so no ice racing this weekend. i am going to go and watch to see what the heck i am getting into here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bryan Raffa]

well kill switch didn't show up, so no ice racing this weekend. i am going to go and watch to see what the heck i am getting into here!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats a good Idea...;)

[sbjones73]

has anyone ever heared of the process of making a hard tire soft? i did some searching and by using diesel fuel and acetone you can make a hard tire (around 70 on the durometer to a 0)
there is a couple of websites devoted to kart racing that people "prep" there tires and some do it for a week to make the tires very very soft.

i wonder if this would work? any thoughts?

[sbjones73]

not sure how long it lasts, but very interested in this. might have to try it on the golf cart tires. just to see how it really works since the golf tires are very hard.

[Billy Golightly]

There is commercial tire softener available (stock car racers, and cart'ers use it) but its only temporary from anything I've ever seen (lasts about 10-15 minutes) and its expensive as hell.