Adjusted valves....STILL ticks

[Kerick]

Well I adjusted my valves today, were almost spot on did a little adjusting set them to I=.003 in; E=.005 in, Theres still a tick tick tick noise coming from somewhere what could this be any ideas appreciated...Mabye Cam chain?

Heres 2 vids of the engine running...
http://s762.photobucket.com/albums/xx261/KerickOB/?action=view&current=1113091532.flv
http://s762.photobucket.com/albums/xx261/KerickOB/?action=view&current=225tick.flv

[MudBug]

check that your header is tight to the engine with no leaks.

[Kerick]

I actually did check that but I dont think its leaking because when I fire it up it smokes and i didnt see any smoke coming from there

[MudBug]

when its idling, cup your hand around where the header joins the motor. If you feel any air on your hand at all, the engine doesnt have enough back pressure, causing the exhaust valve to "tick"

[Kerick]

ok i just went out and tried that and didnt feel any air on my hand

[mike1979]

On my ATC I have a cam chain tensioner, if it is out of adjustment it will sound about like that. Does yours have a tension adjuster?

[Kerick]

Yes I was thinking it might be that my manual is kinda unclear on how to do it. The pic of it is nothing like mine. If anyone can explain that would be awesome. I think I have to take the cover off loosen locknut turn adjuster so it lines up with locknut start it and see if it spins if not back it out if yes leave it? Is tht right???

[Kerick]

Heres an exerpt from the manual saying how to adjust the cam chain-(click on it once it opens and it should zoom in)
http://s762.photobucket.com/albums/xx261/KerickOB/?action=view&current=camadjuster.jpg

I also included a pic of waht looks like my cam chain adjuster and they dont look the same, the one in the manual and mine

[85Tecate]

It could be timing chain slap. I would check the timing chain and tensioners for wear.

[Kerick]

It could be timing chain slap. I would check the timing chain and tensioners for wear.

Im gonna go check out the chain what do the tensioners look like?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

^ I think he was refering to the chain guides that are in the jug slot that run down into the bottom end. Look up the engine top end in the manual, and you should see the two slides. That tick sounds awful loud from the video. I have seen two different YTM's that had a broken rocker arm and ticked really loud just like that. When you were adjusting the valves, did you notice excessive movement on one or the other rockers? Is one of the adjuster screws down much farther from the other? Good luck. ------------ Jon.

[Kerick]

Both the rocker arms barely moved at all, set em to .003 and .005 just like manual said. I just went to check the cam chain and the screws holding the cover on are sooo tight or rusted shut i cant free themm...WHY did Yamaha make phillips head screws on their engines?

[85Tecate]

Im gonna go check out the chain what do the tensioners look like?

Yes im sorry i meant the chain guides. Check them for wear. Alot of times the chain will wear them down and the chain will slap against them.

[Kerick]

thanks for the tip ill check them out as soon as i get this cover off lol

[Louis Mielke]

replace the timing chain. There's almost not a single one of these 20 year old machines that don't need the timing chains replaced. The tensioner on the YTMs is automatic. Seriously, it needs a timing chain.

[Kerick]

replace the timing. There's almost not a single one of these 20 year old machines that don't need the timing chains replaced. The tensioner on the YTMs is automatic. Seriously, it needs a timing chain.

There is a section in the manual saying how to adjust camshaft chain tenshioner(pistured above) could I just adjust that or do I need a chain?

[Kerick]

Idk if this has anything to do with this but...Whn I pull it to start it I HAVE to use the decompression lever everytime or my arm gets yanked ahrd

[Louis Mielke]

Once the chain is so old and stretched it doesn't matter how much you "adjust" it. The chain is now longer, even if by just a teeny tiny bit, than what its supposed to be. It's worn out and there for does not open the valves at the right time, and no amount of adjusting the timing, the chain tensioners, or the rocker arms is going to change that fact. When its worn out its worn out. Timing chains are worn out well before they actually break.

[Kerick]

how would i go about changing one?

[Mud1m]

Crank Bearings Shot.

[85Tecate]

Crank Bearings Shot.

Thats definatley not lower end noise, did you listen to the video?

On the side note, im almost 100% positive a new timing chain and guides will fix your problem. Is this a 200 or a 225? The 200's chain tensioner doesnt automatically adjust you have to do it manaully and theres about 10 different little parts to putting one together. Trust me i had to buy them all seperatley!

To replace those parts you're going to need a top end gasket kit, new chain, new guides (Its usually the tensioner side guide thats worn the most but i'd replace both if youre tearing ti apart) and a little know-how. Its not a very hard job but it does require taking the head off to get the guides out. It's been probably 6 years since ive rebuilt one of these so i will let someone else chime in for the rest. Get a manual! It's your best friend.

Also if you're tearing it down to replace the guides and chain. Have the cylinder honed and put new rings in it. Also put the valve seals that come with the top end gasket kit in. This is going to be a big job, but its fairly simple if you have any mechanical know-how. I wish you luck and take your time! It will be worth it in the end.

[Kerick]

Thanks Ill try adjusting the chain and if all else fails ill rebuild it, was thinking about it anyway...I know you guys all have your tricks to doing stuff, anyone have a trick for getting seized bolts out?

[85Tecate]

Thanks Ill try adjusting the chain and if all else fails ill rebuild it, was thinking about it anyway...I know you guys all have your tricks to doing stuff, anyone have a trick for getting seized bolts out?

Lots of patience! You can try heat, pb blaster, torque it a bit tighter then try losening it, Depending on the bolt you can hit it with a hammer while trying to losen it. If its a steel bolt in aluminum and its siezed you might as well give up because youre probably going to take the threads out with it....Cut it off, drill and tap would be your best bet in that case.

I was just thinking also, since your trike is smoking pretty bad.......that engine noise could just be piston slap. Thats awfully loud for piston slap but its a thought. If you tear it down i would replace the chain and guides also though for safe measure.

[Kerick]

Ok well I just cant get this cam chain cover off i let it soak in wd overnight maybe that helpped

[85Tecate]

Ok well I just cant get this cam chain cover off i let it soak in wd overnight maybe that helpped

Those are philips head screws if i remember correctly arent they? The way i try to get those out when theyre siezed is to hit the handle of the screw driver as im trying to loosen the screw. Sometimes works, sometimes doesnt. They make a nice tool specially for stubborn screws like that. You actually put it on the screw and smack the end of the tool with a hammer and it turns it when you hit it.

Here is what im talking about. They work incredibly good... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37530

[Kerick]

Ok ill give that a try...wow i never seen one of those impact screwdrivers and i was just at harbor freight lol

[85Tecate]

Ok ill give that a try...wow i never seen one of those impact screwdrivers and i was just at harbor freight lol

Yeah for that price its something everyone should add to their tool collection. They work wonders.

[Kerick]

I had one screw coming and then it just stripped this is so frustrating

[TrailerRider]

I use a set of removal tools very similar to these: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00919824000P?keyword=stripped+bolt

They actually grip the head of the screw not the thread and have a reverse twist that digs into the screw head and twists it out. *Be carefull as these have a bad habit of twisting the head off if it is really stuck..lol so PB Buster here is your friend*
Mine are crasftman but these are very similar (Blue set) with the (Red set) being what the head looks like that removes the stripped screw:

[85Tecate]

I had one screw coming and then it just stripped this is so frustrating

What stripped the threads or the screw? You can take a die grinder if the head is stripped and slot it and use a flat screw driver on it. Or if you can grab it with vice grips go that route. If the threads stripped, not a big deal just chase them.

[Kerick]

Well Mike just pointed out that I have an auto cam chain adjuster..........SO looks like itll NEED to be torn down just to do the cam chain so Im probobly gonna do a top end rebuild...Is there a kit to do this with all gaskets, seals, parts?

[code200k]

dennis kirk has the gaskets for the top end ,piston/ring idk bout seals though..also im sure egay has everything

[Erics350x]

You say it smokes? Maybe its piston slap?

[Kerick]

What causes a piston slap? How do tell how big my current bore is?

[Erics350x]

A topend thats worn enough will make piston slap. Its exactly what it sounds like, the piston slaping around in the cylinder.
I would also do the cam chain as everyone else said. It would suck to install a new piston kit and have to tear it back apart for the chain.
You can in most cases pull the head and find marking or numbers on top of the piston to tell the current bore size. You will need a over sized bore piston kit. I'd pull the cylinder and take it to a local machine shop and have them look at it to find the current size and what size kit you need.

[85Tecate]

A topend thats worn enough will make piston slap. Its exactly what it sounds like, the piston slaping around in the cylinder.
I would also do the cam chain as everyone else said. It would suck to install a new piston kit and have to tear it back apart for the chain.
You can in most cases pull the head and find marking or numbers on top of the piston to tell the current bore size. You will need a over sized bore piston kit. I'd pull the cylinder and take it to a local machine shop and have them look at it to find the current size and what size kit you need.

I agree 100%. If it IS piston slap that cylinder is going to need bored.

[Kerick]

How can you tell if the piston slapped? Is the cylinder all scrattched up. Im definately gonna do a ring/valve/chain job over the winter just need to get some cash amd need more garage space lol

[Bill]

I would say it is the timing chain I had the same problem on a 400 ex.

[Dirtcrasher]

Milkman took the words out of my mouth.

These old machines need timing chains AND sometimes tensioners.

I'm not educated on a Yamaha auto or manual tensioners, but they just hold something in place. They DON'T do much work, but the timing chain and gears sure do.....

I must admit, I almost never find worn TC gears, just a worn and stretched chain from doing it's job for 25 years.....

[Kerick]

Those are philips head screws if i remember correctly arent they? The way i try to get those out when theyre siezed is to hit the handle of the screw driver as im trying to loosen the screw. Sometimes works, sometimes doesnt. They make a nice tool specially for stubborn screws like that. You actually put it on the screw and smack the end of the tool with a hammer and it turns it when you hit it.

Here is what im talking about. They work incredibly good... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37530

Ok time for an update...I went and got the impact screwdriver 85Tecate was talking about and got the cam cover off. One snapped halfway off so ill have to drill and tap that one not a big deal. So I was wondering how to tell the cam chain is too loose it feels pretty snug with some pay but it doent fell terrible. is it supposed to be tight

[oscarmayer]

order an impact screwdriver set from sears not harbor freight. thise HF ones snap the tip soff easly. the craftsman will last you for years!! I've used mine a ton on trike rebuilding and brake jobs. so that's really your best bet.

[oscarmayer]

Ok time for an update...I went and got the impact screwdriver 85Tecate was talking about and got the cam cover off. One snapped halfway off so ill have to drill and tap that one not a big deal. So I was wondering how to tell the cam chain is too loose it feels pretty snug with some pay but it doent fell terrible. is it supposed to be tight

there should not be any play in it. it't not a timing belt that has a tiny bit of play. it's a chain and should have no play.
se if you can adjust it to quiet it down, if not, time for a top end rebuild.

[Kerick]

there should not be any play in it. it't not a timing belt that has a tiny bit of play. it's a chain and should have no play.
se if you can adjust it to quiet it down, if not, time for a top end rebuild.

So it should be totally tight?

[85Tecate]

So it should be totally tight?

Yes, no play at all. The problem with just adjusting it to take the noise out is, even though it may very well adjust to take the noise out, the timing will be off because the chain is stretched.

[Kerick]

Yea I know I wasnt gonna adjust it i just wanted to see if that could be a problem im definately gonna rebuild it and replace the chain and sprockets aand top end so Im gonna start tearing it down hopefully tomorrwo

[85Tecate]

Yea I know I wasnt gonna adjust it i just wanted to see if that could be a problem im definately gonna rebuild it and replace the chain and sprockets aand top end so Im gonna start tearing it down hopefully tomorrwo

Before you replace the sprockets, check them for wear. They usually dont go bad. That might save you some money. Make sure your tensioner is working correctly and replace any parts thats needed. I would have the cylinder checked for clearence with the new piston (or old if its still good) and make sure its within specs. If so hone the cylinder, toss in a set of rings, valve seats (comes with top end gasket kit) and a new timing chain and guides. Also with a knock/tick like that check the rod for up and down play. It's normal to have some side to side play, but NO up and down.

[Kerick]

Well the only reason I said sprockets is in the manual it says to replace those with the chain but if you say itd be ok w/o them i wont. Im gonna take my cylinder to a local dealer and have them hone or poss. bore. Theres 3 things im worried about: 1) Doing the valve seals 2) getting the rings onto the piton and in the correct order. 3) Getting new rings and piston into the cylinder.

On Bikebandits fiche what # are the valve seals?http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1985-yamaha-motorcycle-ytm225drn/o/m8794

[85Tecate]

Well the only reason I said sprockets is in the manual it says to replace those with the chain but if you say itd be ok w/o them i wont. Im gonna take my cylinder to a local dealer and have them hone or poss. bore. Theres 3 things im worried about: 1) Doing the valve seals 2) getting the rings onto the piton and in the correct order. 3) Getting new rings and piston into the cylinder.

On Bikebandits fiche what # are the valve seals?http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/1985-yamaha-motorcycle-ytm225drn/o/m8794

The rings are easy, they come with instructions. Also take the piston to the dealer with the cylinder to have it checked for tolerances when they bore or hone it. You cant just hone a cylinder and reuse (well you can) but its not right. You need to hone to fit the piston within specs. If its too loose of specs you will have to goto the next bore and buy a new piston. With an engine that sounds like that, i would bore it 1 size over just because. Get a manual before you do anything. It will be a life saver.

[RodKnockRacing]

valve seals are simple if you have a valve spring compressor for overhead valves

[Kerick]

valve spring compressor i guess ill have to look for one lol

[Bryan Raffa]

take a torch and cut the sides out of a old socket.. and use a C CLAMP! need a picture?... this one is for a 250f..and only I know that:naughty: :lol:

[Kerick]

take a torch and cut the sides out of a old socket.. and use a C CLAMP! need a picture?...

no i get what your saying thats a good idea, i have some old chinese sockets ill cut up

[Bryan Raffa]

no i get what your saying thats a good idea, i have some old chinese sockets ill cut up

exactly what they were intended for...:lol: ;)

[Kerick]

exactly what they were intended for...:lol: ;)

lol yes they are i got a whole sset for christmas one year i think almost every pice is bent or broken. Anyway i was looking on ebay for an actual spring compressor would this work?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UNIVERSAL-OVERHEAD-VALVE-SPRING-COMPRESSOR-TOOL-NEW_W0QQitemZ290345771998QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Automotive_Tools?hash=item4399f4e3de

[Kerick]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Professional-Large-Piston-Ring-Compressor-53-175mm-NEW_W0QQitemZ290374369528QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Automotive_Tools?hash=item439ba940f8

Would this help me get the rings into cylinder the stock size is 70 so i think it would?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

^ I think the valve spring compressors are going to be too big for the job you are doing. For the piston rings, if you really cant get them to go into the cylinder for final instalation there is an old school trick : a large hose clamp! Find a hose clamp big enough to fit around the piston, then tighten it down to compress the rings. You dont need it too severly tight, because the goal here is for the clamp to slide down when you push the cylinder down, thus letting the rings and piston into the bore. Good luck, and hope this trick works out for you.

[Erics350x]

I just use my fingers to push the rings down and slide the cylinder over. Its not hard at all. Just relax and take your time. If you doubt yourself about anything, post it on here and we can walk you through it.

[Kerick]

OK update I finnaly got some free time today and I wennt out and started to tear it down by manual. Drained oil, disconectedd - on batt., took of fenders seat tank, Then i went to take off the pipe and got the right allen wrench tried turning wouldnt budge so i got a small pipe and put it on the end and turned and now its stripped this sucks i hate seized bolts. Thats as far as i got :(

[Bryan Raffa]

I just use my fingers to push the rings down and slid the cylinder over. Its not hard at all. Just relax and take your time. If you doubt yourself about anything, post it on here and we can walk you through it.

:beer :beer :beer what he said.. try to take a mental note where all the dowels go. and o rings,, take pictures if you have to..;)

cut the head off both them bolts for the pipe..mutch easyer to fix out of the bike.. just plan on puttin new ones in.

[200XMichigan]

I put a couple pieces of wood under the piston so it will hold it in place and not tip back and forth or want to turn the crank. Use wood thats nice and square and clean, or if you have square plastic, anything that can't scratch the piston or damage the base gasket. Might not need it since its only 1 cylinder but it will help if you are having problems with the piston moving around on you.

[Kerick]

Thanks for the tips I guess ill just cut the heads and try to get them out when the cylinders off.

[_brad_]

Dude, don't go any further (too late). The ticking noise your hearing is the flat spot that has developed on the rocker arms. Mine makes the same noise and yes, I have adjusted them just as you did.

Only way to fix is replace rocker arms.