Electrical problem with Starter 86 250sx Please Someone?

[jdulac]

I can't pin this problem down and would love to be able to figure it out. I bought my bike with no battery. So i just figured buy i new battery and hook up the wires and i would be fine. Well when i connect the main black wires (one of which goes to the back of the starter and the other one seems to be grounded to the frame) i get a lot of sparking, so much that i can't even actually connect them to my battery. I would love to get my electric start going. Anyone know what could be causing this problem. Is it a bad starter? Is it a bad ground? It is almost like the ground and power are touching each other. I did connect the other two wires and my lights work not sure if that is also connected to the alternator. Even anyone can help i would greatly appreciate it.

[TimSr]

Sounds like you are missing a solenoid (switch) in this equasion. The hot wire from the battery should NOT be hooked directly to the starter unless you have some starter Im not aware of, with a built in switch. If you are running through the solenoid, and its hot at the starter all the time, the solenoid switch contacts have welded together, and it needs replaced.

[jdulac]

I will take pictures tonight hopefully. Maybe than someone can tell me what is hooked up wrong. I was thinking the same thing about the hot wire. I mean how would the starter know when to crank over if it always has a hot wire on it.

[Dirtcrasher]

Starters need a GOOD ground and alot of AMPS to turn over. They also need a big switch to apply the large amps to turn it over - thats the solenoid. Apply a tiny 12 volts with a little wire (thats the button on your switch) and a coil is energized which closes a contact allowing the AMP to flow through that big black cable to the starter.

Plain and simple - with a car battery attatch the ground to the starter housing or it's GROUND cable. And just touch the HOT or positive to the starter terminal or the cable that goes from the solenoid to the starter and it should turn over. It could be froze or the brushes could be shot - who knows but the wiring diagram and basic electric should help you. I'll be glad to try and help with your pictures.

[jdulac]

Ok i fiddled with it last night and could not find any selonoid. There were to wires that were not connected to anything red/green and Yellow/Green maybe this is my problem. I followed the cables from the battery and i was correct the way it is setup the positive form the battery goes straight to the starter and the negative is grounded to the frame. Obvisously it is not connected but this is how it seems to connect. Am i missing something? Here is a picture i took last night.http://members.cox.net/dulacj/wiring.jpg[/url]

[short4stuff]

from what I see in your picture the battery is hooked straight up to the starter.....????? so you would have to take the + wire off after it is started.. I cant ecplaing you sparks....... But something is defentally not hooked up right.

[Dirtcrasher]

Ok i fiddled with it last night and could not find any selonoid. There were to wires that were not connected to anything red/green and Yellow/Green maybe this is my problem. I followed the cables from the battery and i was correct the way it is setup the positive form the battery goes straight to the starter and the negative is grounded to the frame. Obvisously it is not connected but this is how it seems to connect. Am i missing something? Here is a picture i took last night.http://members.cox.net/dulacj/wiring.jpg[/url]

Yes, you'd have to disconnect it as soon as the engine turned over. You are missing the solenoid - when you push your switch in on the handlebars the red green wire and the yellow green are the 12 DC and ground for the solenoid but thats just a big switch and makes the big cable battery to starter positive connection. If your getting a big spark when you press that battery cable to the positive and it just sparks but doesn't turn over - you have a bad starter - bearings, brushes etc. or a bad ground. Here's 2 pics - one mounted correct and one dangling but correct components are there. Good luck

[jdulac]

Thanks for all your help guys, there is no way i would have figured this one on my own :rolleyes: . Now where is the best place to get a selonoid? And from what you guys are telling me my starter is probably shot too because if it was fine when i connect the battery it would turn over until i disconnected it, right? So the selonoid will have a connection for both wires and the positive from the battery. Than an out (positive) to my starter.

[jdulac]

Also thanks dirtcrasher for the pics.

[jeswinehart]

let me check,,, i have a bigred selonoiid (spelling stinks today)
let me do some comparrisions,,, i am sure they are the same but want to double check.

anybody know offhand if they interchange,,, 85 bigred to a 85-86sx ???

john

[Howdy]

let me check,,, i have a bigred selonoiid (spelling stinks today)
let me do some comparrisions,,, i am sure they are the same but want to double check.

anybody know offhand if they interchange,,, 85 bigred to a 85-86sx ???

john

The only difference may be the activating wires. The 250sx has 2 loose wires one with a female end the other with a male end. If John don't have one I do.
Howdy

[Dirtcrasher]

Also thanks dirtcrasher for the pics.


Many of these guys have helped me and I'm glad to pass it along - 3wheeler.org has a nice tech article on rebuilding starters with brush repair etc. Fixing that starter will probably be next on your list - post away!! :-D

[jeswinehart]

judalc + howdy,,, you 2 get together cuz i ain't got my clymers manual back fronm my dive buddy yet. she just bought a 250 bigred and is trying to memorize it still ( lol).
howdy will fix you up. i wanted to post a copy of the wiring diagram a couple of days ago but,,,,, i'm bringing my manual home tomorrow !

howdy,,, did you get a new toy today ??? ( a lathe in indiana )

john

[Howdy]

howdy,,, did you get a new toy today ??? ( a lathe in indiana )

john

As a matter of fact I did ( Picture below ). There is a couple little flaws with it but nothing I can't fix or get fixed cheaply. I will be putting it to use Monday already. I need to remake one shaft on the golf cart.
Howdy


P. S. On my journey I decided to help out Wells county court house ( 70 in a 55 zone ). $120 fine. OUCH!!!!! I guess I deserved it.

[jeswinehart]

well you'll just hafta tack it on the good deal you got on the lathe,,, yikes !.


john

[jdulac]

Howdy, let me know how much you want for it because there is one on ebay right now pretty cheap. Also I took everything apart yesterday and found a mess. First of all the starter seems to be shot because when i connected power to it would only spark. Also the the teeth on the apature of the starter are shot. Also found out the small cover that hides the gears for the starter is cracked and one of the gears inside has a few teeth missing. So i will be looking for these parts as well 11355-HA6-010 (cover), 28140-HA0-680 (gear). No wonder i was leaking oil.