Tri z DG pipe reviews?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

I want to know what people think about the DG expansion chambers (National Series type). Love them or hate them, lets hear it. Do the DG's add any noticable power delivery? I have heard people talk bad about them, and people talk good. I just scored a old DG today at a swap meet, along with an old shcool Answer silencer, which is all intact, and looks pretty cool, but dirty. Let me know your opinions on the DG expansion chamber for the yamaha tri z. Is the old DG design the same as the new DG design of today? How does it compare to the stocker headpipe? I wont be able to utilize the pipe until I get my Z up and going of course. I need a piston kit, cyl bored, and top end gaskets, etc, etc, but am well on my way and have made a lot of progress. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, -- Jon.:beer

[lndy650]

dg stands for dont get'em. any dyno testing and you will see very little gain and in some cases loss in power

[lndy650]

then again unless your looking for a fair bit more power a pipe is a pipe

[harryredtrike]

the dg four stroke pipes rock,but the two stroke are crap

[DeePa]

since there isnt much out there, the dg is fine and is an upgrade for the z.

look at the mantis...its running a dg and its the fastest z out there...

[lndy650]

i wouldnt even say dg is good for four strokes. they suck overall.

[lndy650]

since there isnt much out there, the dg is fine and is an upgrade for the z.

look at the mantis...its running a dg and its the fastest z out there...

put a real pipe on it and see what happens....

[Yamaha_Rules69]

Thanks for the input guys. Anyone else have any experience with the DG on their Z? Im not getting too many positive reviews about it so far. What makes them no good? Do they sacrifice low,mid or top end? I know one good thing about it is its MUCH lighter than the stocker. Thanks again for the input, and keep it coming. ------- Jon.

[brrcuda]

One positive thing is that they still make them as an option.... :w00t:

[Mosh]

There is some misunderstanding in this thread here.
One guy thinks that there are 3-4 readily available options for a Tri-Z aftermarket pipe.
He obviously has no experience with a Tri-Z or finding parts for them.


A DG is about the only pipe you can buy brand new off the shelf for the Z.
You can get another company to make one, I think it was FTZ ??? will make a inframe pipe for the Big Bore Z engine.
If you want a different Brand pipe other than DG for the Z, then you will have to scour Ebay for months to find one, and hope it doesnt cost you $300.

It is not like you can go buy a FMF, ESR, LRD, etc. for a Tri-Z, like the 250R, which has at least 5 different choices.

I have ran a stock, DG and a Phase 5, system on the Z.

The DG has the best low end, mid range grunt of the 3 I mentioned.

If you want more top end, then the phase 5 would be best, but they are hard to find.

The DG is lighter, sounds better and is readily available.
I ran one on a stock Z, and 310 CC Tri-Z.
It worked well overall for both set-ups, but does have a little less over rev than a Phase 5.

EDIT:
FTZ will make you a outframe drag pipe.
Jemco will make you a inframe sectional.

[Yamaha_Rules69]

^ thats great information that I was waiting to hear. Thanks Mosh!

[Mosh]

No problem..

I would love to snag some of them rare ones for testing,but I cant ever find them without selling my car to buy one.

Lonesome Tri-z Had a Bassani for one, for sale a few weeks ago.
I think Mike from long island had a other brand for sale too.

[mike from long island]

I had had a Phase Five headpipe for sale.But it didnt sell for $125.So I am keeping it.I have it on a bike already.I also have the Brand new LRd for the Big Bore Z build.If I ever get to it.I like the complete Phase Five I had on my orginal Z.But you had to be in the trottle all the time. But thats a 2 stroke for ya!!! I sold my orginal Z with a brand new DG set up.New owner loves the bike.But I did get a text from him last night.I think he finally blew it up??? Gotta call him tody....

[DeePa]

put a real pipe on it and see what happens....

What do you consider a real pipe? I have a dg on my rider z, and i have a bassini and a phase 5 sitting on the shelf...

DG is an east bolt on BRAND NEW system that will look sweet and give you some more snot.

I think I may try and buy a jemco for the new build unless i decide to go outframe...

Where is your z?

[lndy650]

my z is sold and when i had it the dyno proved the stock pipe made more topend than the dg.... dg had slightly more on low end. a real pipe is when you take the transfer duration the exhaust duration the boreXstroke, the rod length, the exhaust diameter, the rpm your engine is set up to make power at ect... ect....
then you use some math and lots of experience to come up with the dimensions for a pipe. then build it or have someone build it for you. or just give a company all the info and let them do it.
im not gonna give away hard earned knowledge but lets just say 130 degree transfers and 198 degree exhaust duration max hp @ 9500rpms

[Kintore]

You got a dyno sheet Indy?

[lndy650]

i do... but id rather not give out hours of hard work and $$$ for nothing. i used a spacer and 2 gaskets to raise the ports and increase port timing and overall the exhaust was raised 2.2mm, decked the cylinder and rechambered the squish band. disassembled the entire engine ported the transfers and matched them to the cases. built up base pressure with opoxy.
if you know enough about porting youll notice that you can add 2 boost ports in the reed cage. also for those using stock pipes if you cut 10mm out of the stock pipe it makes a good top end difference. the cut should be at the u shaped section that bulges as the header section leaves the cylinder.

[Mosh]

i do... but id rather not give out hours of hard work and $$$ for nothing. i used a spacer and 2 gaskets to raise the ports and increase port timing and overall the exhaust was raised 2.2mm, decked the cylinder and rechambered the squish band. disassembled the entire engine ported the transfers and matched them to the cases. built up base pressure with opoxy.
if you know enough about porting youll notice that you can add 2 boost ports in the reed cage. also for those using stock pipes if you cut 10mm out of the stock pipe it makes a good top end difference. the cut should be at the u shaped section that bulges as the header section leaves the cylinder.
Those mods are just about word for word right out of the phase 2 wrench report.
http://www.quadpit.com/mags/1985/3-4w-action/yam-wrench-report-02.htm
And you got peak HP at 9500 rpm?

Were you able to keep the jug sealed with 2 base gaskets?

[lndy650]

i tried the stock pipe mod from the phase 1 report. it does work so i figured id share it. the cylinder seals fine with the shim and a gasket on each side. my boost ports i did before i found the report but they are about the same as they did mine are a little lower in the cage. my durations are set for around 9500 and my pipe was built for 9500rpms it was a little peaky but not too bad

[Kintore]

i do... but id rather not give out hours of hard work and $$$ for nothing.

Just wondering, seems to me, you already told us your hard work and money above^^


I just want to see numbers, no need to tell me what you have done with whatever you use, JB weld etc...


Just proof is all im asking....

[DeePa]

yeah and plus you sound like a prick when you respond so that doesnt help in people believing you...

share the wealth

[Bryan Raffa]

i do... but id rather not give out hours of hard work and $$$ for nothing. i used a spacer and 2 gaskets to raise the ports and increase port timing and overall the exhaust was raised 2.2mm, decked the cylinder and rechambered the squish band. disassembled the entire engine ported the transfers and matched them to the cases. built up base pressure with opoxy.
if you know enough about porting youll notice that you can add 2 boost ports in the reed cage. also for those using stock pipes if you cut 10mm out of the stock pipe it makes a good top end difference. the cut should be at the u shaped section that bulges as the header section leaves the cylinder.

as a matter of fact I do :lol:

[lndy650]

yeah and plus you sound like a prick when you respond so that doesnt help in people believing you...

share the wealth

how am i sounding like a prick? and i dont have a scanner and im not gonna try to take pics of my dyno sheets just so other people can benefit from it. but i have no problem explaining some of the work i did to the engine its no secret what i posted.
anyway i really dont care if people believe me the only person i have to prove anything to is myself. this may be the last time im gonna bother helping people on here and all the keyboard racers can bicker over a bunch of BS

[RedRider_AK]

how am i sounding like a prick? and i dont have a scanner and im not gonna try to take pics of my dyno sheets just so other people can benefit from it.

LMFAO.

How does seeing your dyno sheet give away your "hard earned secrets"? Are you a top-shelf pro racer who faces stiff competition? Do you even race at all? If you don't, you have no real reason not to share your mods here and help someone else make some extra power, maybe earn the respect of some people on here. Instead you start looking down your nose at people, hogging knowledge (and not even staying quiet about it, you're flagrantly DISPLAYING the fact that you're gonna be a dick and not share a damn thing, but that doesn't stop you from telling everyone "oh hey guys, yeah my engine makes a lot of power but I'm not going to prove it or tell you how I did it"").

Sounds kinda prickish to me, to be honest.



I just want to see numbers, no need to tell me what you have done with whatever you use, JB weld etc...

Bahahaha :lol:

[Mosh]

Max power at 9500 RPM's out of a 250cc Tri-Z is amazing.
Many Banshee's sign off at about 9200 RPM from all the charts I have seen.

I have some questions since you said you would share the engine specs but not the dyno sheets.

What was the factory squish reading?
What was your altered squish set to?
What kind of intake were you running?
What kind of carb where you running?
What was the thickness of the spacer plate?
What piston did you use?
What Epoxy do you feel comfortable with using inside a engine, that wont flake apart and get into the crank bearings?

[Yamaha_Rules69]

^ My goal wasnt to get everyones panties in a bunch and get in a big fight over the post. I was just looking for some info. Thanks for those who had positive things to say, and I hope everyone can get along.

[sandpuppi101]

I mite be a Honda guy for the most part but I think I'm getting educated on Tri-Z's now :lol: I gotta say though that I really don't see that by giving Dyno report's it's letting a big secret out or anything.I'm actually really curious about the gain~ Just for comparison what's an '85 Tecate kick out at RPM wise anyway's??

[lndy650]

^ its not that its a secret its that i spent a lot of time and money on the dyno so if people are so curious take your wheeler and spend the time and money to set it up how YOU like it.

[TimSr]

Too bad all some poor guy wanted was opinions on a DG pipe on what sounds to be a pretty much typical machine. All this other list of "trade secrets" and modifications BS does is invalidate any real evaluation of the pipe itself on a typical application.

Yamaha Rules, to answer your simple question, the DG two stroke pipes are mostly just an inexpensive stock replacement for most models. On the TriZ they add a small but detectable amount of low end over the stocker with most typical applications. If you need a replacement, they are great. If you are looking for performance enhancements, spend your money on some porting.

[lndy650]

Max power at 9500 RPM's out of a 250cc Tri-Z is amazing.
Many Banshee's sign off at about 9200 RPM from all the charts I have seen.

I have some questions since you said you would share the engine specs but not the dyno sheets.

What was the factory squish reading?
What was your altered squish set to?
What kind of intake were you running?
What kind of carb where you running?
What was the thickness of the spacer plate?
What piston did you use?
What Epoxy do you feel comfortable with using inside a engine, that wont flake apart and get into the crank bearings?

i never measured the stock squish i rechambered the head and had the squish narrowed to 35% of the bore. from there cut until my altered squish was .040

i had boyesen reeds and a 38mm lectron.

the spacer plate was .035 and the extra gasket squished to .010 for a .045 lift.

i used a wiseco 70mm piston (2mm over)

the epoxy i use is moroso A+B epoxy and i highly recommend it
http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=23601

[lndy650]

tri-z 250 i think i already stated i wasnt the first and what i did was no secret. everybody wants thier engines different if you want a pipe like mine that turns 9500 on methanol/ nitropropane mix ill give you the dimensions if its that big of a deal and you cant do your own homework

[jeddy]

I had a DG on my first Tri-Z, and I rode it with the stocker also. The main advantages of the DG to me were: it was a lot lighter system than the stocker (mainly the silencer), I thought it sounded a lot better due to the thin expansion chamber (I liked the sound, others might not), it had a lot more top end and seemed like a more abrupt 'hit' when it got on the pipe. The disadvantage was it seemed like I lost almost all of my bottom end power. I think it did better in the trails with the stocker, but better in the open dunes and drag racing with the DG. I ended up leaving the DG on it because I thought it sounded better and was more exciting to ride (even if it was more work to keep it in the power in the trails) since that's the whole point of riding a trike anyways.

Hope that helps, sorry I didn't read many of the other posts since it seemed like most other pipe/jetting/tuning threads where it's a bunch of drama...

Good luck,
-Jed

[lndy650]

huh... no more rude comments?

[Tri-ZNate]

Unless you want to cut the oem pipe up your only 2 new choices are dg or jemco. Jemco usually has a several week waiting period and the fact is the DG pipes on the Z do make more power. Phase 5, bassani, and a few other pipes come up on ebay and usually need to be repainted due to the 20 years of use.

Take it for what its worth

[lndy650]

no offense but i think youd be better off with a stock pipe over the one your using with that huge dent

[Mrs.Mosh]

This thread hasn't had a reply in 3 days...then you come in just to insult another members pipe?

If you don't like DG, fine don't run one. The thread starter just asked a question. Lets try to answer him without putting down others.

[lndy650]

It seems to me other people were putting me down first.

[Mrs.Mosh]

So you put down Nates pipe? I saw no where in this thread where Nate said anything to put you down?

Don't turn this into a childs "he started it!" bickering match.

[lndy650]

ok im gonna explain this and then say nothing more on the matter. Nate said "the fact is the DG pipes on the Z do make more power" now i want to know how he knows for sure when he has a massive dent in his pipe. it wasnt ment as an insult just a meer question... i have been designing pipes for years (started ot on paper) and that dented pipe will not make more power than a stock z pipe when they barely exceed stock on lowend with no dents.

heres some proof this time...this is a pipe designed for the tri-z with the specs i previously mentioned to make peak hp @ 9500rpms running on 78% methanol 2%acetone and 20% nitropropane
EDIT:this was based on stock bore before i went to oversize

[Tri-ZNate]

ok im gonna explain this and then say nothing more on the matter. Nate said "the fact is the DG pipes on the Z do make more power" now i want to know how he knows for sure when he has a massive dent in his pipe.

:lol: Man you know everything. Where is this massive dent anyway? Maybe where the shiney DG is showing my reflection? Maybe you mean the massive dent factory put in the OEM pipe. DG makes more power over stock, I have never seen a test where DG hasnt.

And I dont know why your calling me out aside from bad eyesight. I'm far from a fan of DG but I know how my bike ran with the DG. Infact I gave this pipe to freakfix here on the boards since I located a full bassani system for it months ago

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/110/l_181da7d73818940854b1c1442eb1a9c8.jpg

[cobrazilla]

Interesting thread.

I just went to install the a brand new DG silencer on my 86 tri-z, but it doesnt seem to be a direct bolt on.

Anybody else have an issue with this? The tri z is bone stock in mint condition, is there some bracket that needs to be fabricated to swap out the stock exhaust for the complete DG exhaust?

any help and pics are appreciated

[300rman]

It must be a trick of the light, but that pipe looks like it has a huge dent in it. (going off your SIG pic)

and indy is right, big dents take away quite a bit of power.

[lndy650]

ya that really looked like a big dent. my apologies...

[85Tecate]

I ran a DG pipe on my T3 with great success. I traded it for an extended swinger to Gag_Halfront, and he noticed a nice increase in overall power, and likewise i noticed alot less power with the stocker. So im going to have to say the DG is a decent pipe, and like others say, is readily available.