wats up fellas... no spark on 250R?

[STONEY67]

hey guys,

I've been riding 3wheelers since i was 4 (young 33 now lol) pretty cool there are still other guys out there still ripping them... anyway, I have a 85 Honda 250R that has lost her spark... I figured it was just the spark plug boot connection but that was fine, so then I checked for power at the coil and I have nothing ... so I have power coming outta both feed wires out of the stator all the way up to the CDI plug ... but nothing coming out of the CDI box to the coil... do you guys think it is a good guess that the CDI unit is bad?

I would have just bought one and tried it but Honda discontinued the part (SOB) and the only place I found one was on e-bay used... i own an auto part store in Rochester NY so I deal with car stuff all day but don't mess around with these type of electrical systems much anymore... are these CDI units a popular type of problem on the 250R's?

Thanks in advance for any help on my baby... I freakin love this 3-wheeler and it's torn apart in my garage just waiting to tear it up again :beer

[beets442]

Yes, you are on the right track. I would replace CDI and Welcome to the Gang! Beets

[STONEY67]

sweet dude... I was pretty sure it's like a control module on cars but I wanted to see if any of you guys ran into this before I went and ordered a used one... any other ideas where I might be able to find a new one? like I said, I sell new auto parts and I'm not a fan of used stuff... with my freaking luck the one I get will be bad and I'll think that wasn't the problem in the first place...

Thanks for the welcome and info Beets

[grancuda]

There is no way to test the CDI without a high dollar tester.
My guess would be coil.

[STONEY67]

The coil was my first guess also but there is no power at the coil... no power no spark I would say .... I traced power all the way to the plug that goes into the CDI unit... the wire coming out of that, which goes to the positive side of the coil is dead.. nothing, nada, nilch lol.... I guess I better double check the ground and make sure it's still good but this bike is pretty clean since it doesn't get used as much as I would like

have any of you guys that own a 250R have this problem? I said screw it and just ordered the CDI box from e-bay... I'll post up the findings if anyone wants to know

[jeffatc250r]

For some reason ive had trouble with the 85 style cdi boxes. I think ive got 3 dead soldiers in my garage. Have yet to have a problem with an 86 style. could just be a coincidence.

[STONEY67]

For some reason ive had trouble with the 85 style cdi boxes. I think ive got 3 dead soldiers in my garage. Have yet to have a problem with an 86 style. could just be a coincidence.

from what I've seen, the 85 and 86 take the same part :wondering ... I'm hoping this does the trick...

I haven't rode in a long time and went to the Allegany Mountains to rip last weekend... got it out of the shed and changed the oil, washed her and loved her lol ... fucker ran great and i was ripping all over the place... so then I tow it 2 hours away, get her off the trailer, starts right up .... then poof, stalls ... change the plug and I still got nothing... thats when I noticed I had no spark...

put her back on the trailer and grabbed a handful of bears to make it all good again...lol

[jeffatc250r]

No they are not. The 86 has rectangular plug ins. The 85 has only one round plug in. Be sure of what you are getting, you need the 86 wiring harness to run an 86 box, unless you hack.

[STONEY67]

No they are not. The 86 has rectangular plug ins. The 85 has only one round plug in. Be sure of what you are getting, you need the 86 wiring harness to run an 86 box, unless you hack.

Thanks for the heads up bro... the CDI that was pictured on e-bay looked exactly like mine did (one roundish plug)... so hopefully it's the right one..

I said they were the same cause the guys at my local Honda shop said they were and the listing on e-bay said 85-86 Honda 250R ... with my luck I'll be back in here begging for info on hacking it...lol

you guys ever notice that you wanna ride more when you know it's broke :(

I'll try and snap some pics of her when i get it back together and start tearin it up again...

you guys got some sweet 3wheelers up in here :w00t:

[jeffatc250r]

The 86 looks like this, its from a trx but the same as the 86 atc, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-TRX-250r-Fourtrax-CDI-Box-Works-Perfect-CheckThis_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em 14QQhashZitem27ab65abacQQitemZ170379291564QQptZMot orsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[beets442]

Hey Stoney, If your up for a ride next year at the Allegenys, let me know. I went the last weekend in Aug. and had a great time. It was a little wet but I love mud. I've got a cabin in Marienville at the south end of the forest. I usually go the week after opening season to avoid the crowd and 4th of July and the last week in Aug every year if I'm not working crazy hours. I post when I go in the local riding forum......Beets

[STONEY67]

sounds sweet bro... we used to own a cabin in Cuba, NY (Cuba Cheese) off Route 17 ... my parents split up so we lost the cabin, which sucks balls, but hey thats life... I used to go to the Salamanca Run on the Indian perserve every year when i was younger... great freakin ride... I'd be up for ride sometime

[thefox]

What part of Rochester are you from Stoney? There are a number of trikers in your area so if you want to tag along on a group ride keep an eye out in the riding forum. I am just east of Syracuse but make it out your way when I can.

Oh, Welcome to 3 Wheeler World!

[STONEY67]

What part of Rochester are you from Stoney? There are a number of trikers in your area so if you want to tag along on a group ride keep an eye out in the riding forum. I am just east of Syracuse but make it out your way when I can.

Oh, Welcome to 3 Wheeler World!

Thanks Fox, sounds like fun... I'm on the west side of Rochester near Spencerport... I'll keep an eye on the riding forum to see whats up

[STONEY67]

I changed out the CDI and I still have no power to the coil... so that wasn't it

Does anyone know if the G/W and L/Y wires coming out of the Pulse Generator should create power everytime the plate on the side of the drum passes it? I have power out of the R/B and Y/W wires coming out of the drum but get nothing out of the other 2 wires coming out of the pulse generator that goes to the CDI box.... R/B has power all the way to the CDI plug, Y/W has power all the way to the regulator and to the headlight switch, plus the headlight lights when I kick it... but I still have no power to the coil... any help out there? here is the wiring diagram if anyone has a sec to help out

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250Rx85.jpg

[lndy650]

did you test the coil using ohms?

[STONEY67]

I changed out the CDI and I still have no power to the coil... so that wasn't it

Does anyone know if the G/W and L/Y wires coming out of the Pulse Generator should create power everytime the plate on the side of the drum passes it? I have power out of the R/B and Y/W wires coming out of the drum but get nothing out of the other 2 wires coming out of the pulse generator that goes to the CDI box.... R/B has power all the way to the CDI plug, Y/W has power all the way to the regulator and to the headlight switch, plus the headlight lights when I kick it... but I still have no power to the coil... any help out there? here is the wiring diagram if anyone has a sec to help out

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250Rx85.jpg

no I checked for power at the positive side of the coil with a light tester... everytime I kick the bike I have nothing at the coil... so I figured if it doesn't have any juice it won't create any spark???

[STONEY67]

I only need to know if the 2 wires coming out of the pulse generator should have any power in them ... I think they should get juice when the plate on the drum/alternator passes by the magnet/pulse generator and sends the juice to the coil so it fires at TDC ... is that correct? I have no power coming out of the pulse generator at all

the G/W and L/Y wires that go from the pulse generator to the CDI??

http://www.files.3wheelerworld.com/Wiring/ATC250Rx85.jpg

[ceaserthethird]

yes the '85 R's have some electronic problems, mine did.

try a New Coil, If that doesn't work try a stator.

[STONEY67]

yes the '85 R's have some electronic problems, mine did.

try a New Coil, If that doesn't work try a stator.

well I already tried a new CDI (90$) and that wasn't it... I'm leaning towards a stator assembly cause I have no power coming out of the 2 wires that hook to the pulse generator... but no one knows if thats how it works or not :(

Honda doesn't make the stator anymore... so I'd be spending another 300 bucks on a guess... don't wanna be a part changer... i wanna know how it works so I can fix it right...

thanks for trying to help dude... :TrikesOwn

[TexFest]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-HONDA-ATC-250R-250-R-STATOR-2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhash Zitem5ad1b978deQQitemZ390065649886QQptZMotorcycles Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-HONDA-ATC-250R-250-R-STATOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14Q QhashZitem41473e6900QQitemZ280368146688QQptZMotorc yclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[STONEY67]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-HONDA-ATC-250R-250-R-STATOR-2_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhash Zitem5ad1b978deQQitemZ390065649886QQptZMotorcycles Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-HONDA-ATC-250R-250-R-STATOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14Q QhashZitem41473e6900QQitemZ280368146688QQptZMotorc yclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Thanks for the links Texfest... I was looking at new ones on e-bay but I could save a few bucks on a used one... that way it doesn't hurt as much if that doesn't fix it... http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff29/STONEY67_photo/smiley_-_spanked.gif

[STONEY67]

Ok.....the flywheel has magnets built inside the metal housing.... the flywheel is also KEYED to the crank to ensure proper timing...and on the outside of the flywheel you will USUALLY have some timing marks... .very small 'lazer engraved' marks...usually a 'T' for TDC and 'F' for ..... umm... I dont really know....maybe "fire"....lol but this is mark for the ignition timing....usually close to the "T" about 10-20* away based on a 360* wheel.... and there is one other very important component of the flywheel..... and im not sure what Experts call it....but I call it the 'BUMP'..... it is a small metal piece that protrudes above the circumference of the flywheel.....as the flywheel spins, the magnets spin around the stator and creates current.... since these are Alternators and not Generators...this current is Alternating current (see how that part became known as an Alternator?...LOL) back in my day a lot of machines still used Generators....which were not nearly as efficient at slower speeds as the Alternator is... at any rate....depending on the CDI system.... you can have varying amounts of energy.... for example in your 450R...your gonna have some energy developed just for spark.... generated by what is called an 'exciter coil'....now dont quote me on all these technical terms cuzz to be honest with ya....my knowledge of ignition system is not what it should be.....and there are many terms which are synonymous....so bear with me.....at any rate....the 'alternator' which is comprised of the flywheel and stator....will produce AC current which must be altered to DC current before you can operate your lights, charge your battery, etc....this is where the ICM (Ignition Control Module) comes in to play.... but let's get back to that little 'bump' on the flywheel..... that bump is designed to send the energy from the stator to the ICM...it basically initiates the spark.... whenever that bump rotates around underneath another component of the stator known as a "Pulse Generator" or "Ignition Coil" or even "Pulse Ignition Generator"....etc.... it is usually a small plastic piece which houses a magnet inside, has two wires running to it, and a small metal nipple sticking out towards the flywheel that senses this metal 'BUMP' as it passes by.....this triggers the spark from the ICM to the coil to the spark plug.....

I found an article that explains how it works if anyone else runs into this... now i know it's the stators pulse genereator that isn't working... I should have pulses of power coming out of those wires to the CDI box (this guy is calling it the control module) every time the (bump) or plate on the side of the drum (harmonic balancer) passes the pulse generator, I have nothing ... off to e-bay I go :D

[inv3ctiv3]

The F mark is for ignition timing....