200X compression leak

[mick]

hey i'll take anything on this one. i recently got a '85 200X 3 wheeler. i got it for free so you can guess the shape it is in. I was able to get the motor going after some tinkering. The motor ran but wouldn't idle, lacked alot of power and smoked like a son of a gun. I ran it for a while figuring the thing hadn't been run in a year or so. while feathering the gas to keep it running while adjusting the carb the darn thing puttered out. upon kick starting it again there was a definite lack of compression, and air could be heard being sucked in and out of the engine casing via the driveshaft oil seal. i have since taken the engine apart to find a good set of rings and the cylinder looks fine. the valves are sligtly caked with oil deposits. i'm looking to check the valves next, but do not want to overlook anything or make any rookie mistakes. could the compression leak and the burning oil both be due to the valves? or is there some other thing i overlooked? i'm wondering if you guys had any tips out there. i plan on this being a good winter project. i'd appreciate any tips. thanks, mick

[sandtowd]

you cant tell if rings are good just by looking at them. not always anyway. if you cylinder is glossy there bad 90% of the time its rings. you heard a sound at the drive seal????? pressure must be passing by the rings. going in the crankcase then out that seal. seals bad also or is it coming out the vent. the tube just behind the carb. it sounds like you got a good one to fix up

[mick]

yeah the sound of air is definitely coming from the drive seal. for some reason the air is not going through the vent like it should. thats something i'll look into. this wheeler has been so freaking jerry rigged :shock:(not to say that i've never done it myself!)

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Came on the bike when I got it, and I m a woods rider and that 1.3 gallon capacity just dont cut it. I Would like to keep my R but shorten the swinger and get some more fuel capacity. No where to track around here. I'm open to partial trades on a nice 83-85 200X or 350x

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Short track tank has been sold!!!
Inquire about anything else Liquid R or 250es big red parts needed.
Thanks, Ty

[zackwhite]

u neeed head gaskets and if it smokes bad thne either trailprotrailpro rings r bad or trailprotrailpro velues r not doing there job or to much oil in the bike

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Nah I disagree, I think someone sold you a cursed machine. You better sell it to me for $1 so all is legal an I'll get rid of the bad JU-JU and burry it ceremoniously. But in actuality good score, where I live someone want to sell you their grandmother's rascal for $1200 just cause it has Holeshots on it lol

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Hey no offense!! I love seeing a new generation of cadets in training realizing they dont need that extra 'training' wheel. Still teaching my youngest nephew not to run his dam feet over, lol

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Money talks

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Tank has been sold still have the ATC500 frame though.

[zackwhite]

if u wana seel it let me no

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Yeah Kasey hit it on the head, I'd say either that or your clutch side main bearing seal is shot and suckin in trans fluid.
Just adding a high flow filter aint gonna bog ya, you have a restrictive condition somewhere.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned thr Trail Pros, If I see one more set I swear! Imagine doin a buck on those, lol.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I too have wondered this, I find it a pain in the ass gettin the airbox boot to fit the back of the carb. Especially with oversized carbs.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I got $5800 for the truck, and about $1800 for my stolen items, the depriciations were ridiculous, I only got about $1.20 per cd, and moste were new $20 cds.
To top it all off there were boot prints on the hood so the cop took my workboots to compare the prints. Said he would have them back in a month, but here it is 4 months later and no boots. I had to buy a new pair and contemplated sending the state police the bill, but I figured that was a bad idea. They also took blood samples from around the dash (dumb ass punched out my gauge cluster).
Here's the real kicker, found whoever stole my truck left their cell phone under the seat, nice one too! Turned it into the police (careful not to mess up prints), called a week later to find out what they know about the phone, and get this. They hadn't gotten the proper search warrants to check the phone, seriously? WTF!!
I plan on suing the garage owner (the keys in the ignition were the ones he had)

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Mick I am completely sorry, everywhere I reply ens up here, I'm trying to have Billy help me figure out what is wrong.
Sorry again man

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Yeah should-coulda-woulda, at the time I didn't want to screw up any evidence thinking the cops knew they were doing. The cop that started my case is only 26, prob straight outta the academy.
Trust me if I ever find out who is responsible they are gonna have two permanent palm marks on their neck, and be shittin through a size 12 boot. Hell maybe I'll use my old pair of Rebok pumps, just to make sure they get a good exhaust seal, LMFAO!

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I was looking at a really sweet trike the other day but didn't have enough money. Really sucks cause it had a brand new powerband and muffler bearings.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Also as others stated 32to1 and an NGK BR8ES is the way to go.
But don forget that when you change your fuel/oil mixture you need to change the jetting to accommodate that. Running lean means less gasoline per air charge, so at 32to1 you will actually be running richer as there is more gasoline present. Gasoline cools down your piston/top end, not the oil. Oil is present to lubricate your crankcase/piston, gasoline is there to cool the top end and provide combustion (with oxygen ofcourse). Thats why 32to1 is a good middle median, good lubrication, and good piston cooling.
Just remember oil/fuel and air/fuel are two different things.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

9/11? Is that really a good date? Seeing as how the world took a crap that day

I would love to go, but may not have any wheels by then

[Tri-Z Pilot]

BKM I always had people bashing Banshee's in my area, I've never ridden one but figured them being a 350 twin 2 stroke would def be different. I dont even know what they sound like, I figured a high revving crotch rocket would be the closest they sound to. I always heard you gotta be on the pipes, (no cruising) but a couple years ago I read in Dirtwheels that a set of FMF Gnarly SST's gave them awesome low end torque while retaining low end torque. Anything to look for on a Shee? I know to stay away from the early J-Arm ones, but like you said I could prob find a decent 00-03 already piped for around $2000-$2500. Anything else I should know?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Greg, thats what I was thinking, I've been seeing nice 400s on the cheap that are in good to awesome condition. Rode one back in the day, but then never thought about them till recently when I just got this unresistable urge that I needed one.
I def want a red one around 00-02 (dont like those buggy looking new ones), although the new reverse would be cool, but I'm sure those will retro fit older units. I just love that side-by-side dual headlight look.
Whats everyones thoughts on the 440ex kits? Reliable? Add that much more torque/power?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I wasn't really gettin at anything Kasey, just putting out some useful information That would give some a better understanding of what is exactly going on with our machines when picking a proper mix ratio, and a general understanding of how our engines use the fuel information that we give them. Carbuerators are are the one think on most of our toys take the most tinkering and experimentation to get somewhat right. There is no such thing as too much information in my eyes.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I wasn't really gettin at anything Kasey, just putting out some useful information That would give some a better understanding of what is exactly going on with our machines when picking a proper mix ratio, and a general understanding of how our engines use the fuel information that we give them. Carbuerators are are the one think on most of our toys take the most tinkering and experimentation to get somewhat right. There is no such thing as too much information in my eyes.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

One way I always checked to see if my reeds were the culprit on non starting machines is to take your airfilter off, make sure ignition is off, fuel is off, hold throttle wide open, and I would hold some streamers (kinda like what you see on the handlebar ends of little girly bikes) inside where the airfilter use to mount to. If they blow backwards out the airbox when you kick the bike over you know your reeds are bad allowing compression back through the carb.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Yeah I know how to diagnose quite well, was just wonderin if there were specific problems with this model, I.E. the checking of the CDI.

I would love to hear some hop up tips as well, it's been awhile but I'm pretty sure a stock xr200 cam is a little hotter than the 200x's. I am not sure if anyone still offers a performance 83-85 cam. I really wanna know about the high-comp pistons too.

Oh trust me Harry, he's gonna get a couple once overs about the 350Hoosier Daddy

But I figured hell for $500 (I'm sure I can at least get it down to $400) I should only have to put a couple hundred $ in parts and have a solid runner.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

BTW, how bad is the noise on the Cobra? I wanna get an aftermarket system but last I knew only Cobra made them for an 83-85, and last I heard all they were capable of was being obnoxious.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Oh yea! Mosh's Z is one DAMM fine beautiful machine, the only thing I don't like is having to run 110 the time (why the 110? got something to do with the Sprock head or the 330 kit?)
You could buy that but as we all know there is that certain warm fuzzy feeling about sittin on something you created yourself.....AAaahhh TO HELL WITH IT!! Snag Moshman's, LOL! I foget what was he asking?

P.S. That LRD is it one of those fancy adjustable types?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Oh yea, that fancy aluminum tank, I didn't even notice it (you can tell I havent owned a Z in awhile) That makes me almost wanna get another Z, I thought I was done with them, (I hate that under the seat tank/fuel pump setup)
Are those airbox tanks more common now? How much $ do they run if you dont mind me asking.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Oh yea, that fancy aluminum tank, I didn't even notice it (you can tell I havent owned a Z in awhile) That makes me almost wanna get another Z, I thought I was done with them, (I hate that under the seat tank/fuel pump setup)Are those airbox tanks more common now? How much $ do they run if you dont mind me asking.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Well, that 200x was sold hours before I got to it, why does this always happen?
I got my eyes on some more in PA, but its gonna be hard to get them since some douche stole my truck, and I dont really know of anyone that would let me borrow theirs.
But I saw an 84 I believe, but surprise! Kicker slips. An 85 with rebuilt top end surprise! Ran awesome when parked, .
I swear you guys are freakin psychic! About the only thing in my price range is an 83 with a 185s motor that has the rear end off for $275 I wouldn't be too displeased but I dont think I would be happy with an auto-X, even if it did run good.
http://syracuse.craigslist.org/rvs/2525222065.html Anybody live near Williamstown PA?
http://delaware.craigslist.org/rvs/2506027596.html Avondale PA? http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/mcy/2500007081.html Apollo PA?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

It's like you got a pair of twins that do their own thing in life, like brothers,
The Big Red keeps to himself and does what is needed of him quietly, while the X is getting boob underneath the bleachers, and a gang of Tri-Motos starts hassling Red so X comes to the rescue and roosts the hell outta them.
Or they could be 80's detectives, the Red plays by the book while the X comes wheelying in playing it "fast and loose". But together they solve the crimes, coming this fall "X and the Big Red" Parental discretion advised.
Yeah I got problems, "Big whoop, wanna fight about it?"

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Hey swift, whats in your avatar? looks mean!

[oscarmayer]

Tri-Z, talk about off-topic.... lets please stay on topic.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

You know you should see if you could make the cover of Dirtwheels, even if its an April fools issue saying Honda is building trikes again.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Trust me Oscar I wouldn't be doing this on purpose.
I post in another thread and It winds up here for some reaon.
Billy and I have been trying to fix it.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I'm thinking you should try that dual adjustable cable (It adjusts at the handlebars and halfway down the cable)
I have no idea what it's listed under, but I'm sure someone on here does. Maybe check an aftermarket carb company? ESR?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

As far as boring and stroking the 200x motor, thats a no go as Honda was already at their limit when they designed the 200x, seeing as it is basically a bored and stroked 175 enduro motorcycle motor I believe.
You are better off selling the 200x and buying something bigger.

As the old addage goes "There is no replacement for displacement"

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Ahhh good idea Mosh, gonna have to remember that one. Beezwax ya say?

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Hey skid you talkin about the one in Halifax? I didn't think it looked that bad from the pics.

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Hey Skid, I think I saw a better Z for $1100. I myself would rather have an 86 6speed with 85 colors. And also Skid, stay away from those PA 200xs!! We are apparently using the same CL and I have yet to find my steal of a 200x,lol

[Tri-Z Pilot]

Never have a jug bored before the shop has the piston to measure it. Example even though lets say you order a 0.40 over piston, the jug may not need a 0.40 over bore. It may need a very minute change in boring size because even though you have a 0.40 over piston it may be off by a thousandth of an inch, not all pistons are exactly the same size even though they are labeled so.
Always get your piston first then take the piston and jug to be bored, they will measure things and make sure it is an appropriate bore job. Last time I checked boring and honing will cast about $85.
P.S. get a ring compressor too, two stoke rings you can slide into the cylinder by hand fourstrokes you cannot. Thant 200x being aircooled, you will find it a cinch redoing the top end yourself. You will feel good after doing it yourself too, not much to mess up, just make sure you get the mechanical timing right (the manual will tell you all you need to know) It's a lot easier than you think, best of luck to ya fellow triker!!!!

[Tri-Z Pilot]

I just thought of something else to check, perhaps you have a sticking float valve. With the new carb maybe it is idling high due to incorrect pilot size, incorrect idle speed screw adjustment, or your carb slide isn't seatin in the closed position (could be caused by too high of idle speed screw adjustment, or incorrect throttle cable adjustment.
My theory is the float bowl fills with gas then it idles high, then when the float bowl runs out of gas your idle drops and the engine tries to die until the float needle becomes unstuck and fills the carb bowl up again. Also check to make sure your petcock filter isn't clogged providing insufficient fuel flow to the carb bowl. Turn off petcock, disconnect fuel line from carb, then turn petcock on to make sure there is adequate fuel flowing. If it just trickles you have a fuel flow prob, if it pours out you should look into the carb.
Are you positive ignition and cam timing are correct? Valves adjusted properly?